Muslim wives legally invisible

There was a study published in the Lancet a while ago saying there was an equivalent risk. If you google it, you will find information about it. There has been similar research findings on IVF but I have no idea if that is because of parental age, higher chance of multiple births or some other factor.

I think first cousin marriage is more easily avoidable than having babies when you are older (certainly in western society) but I think people on mumsnet who judge cousin marriage but then happily encourage people to have babies when they are older are thinking more about the ick factor rather than the actual risks.

So it’s all just a big coincidence that the same stuff is happening in several countries and in small parts here?

What about the recent change of law in Iraq to allow marriage of girls aged 9?

The law gives religious authorities the power to decide on family matters, including marriage, divorce, and child custody, and abolishes a longstanding ban on child marriage under the age of 18, which had been in place since the 1950s.
This change significantly reduces protections for women and children, exposing them to greater risks of exploitation and abuse.
The law also restricts women’s access to fundamental rights, including divorce, child custody, and inheritance, which are all important for their autonomy and safety.

Nb. Those ‘religious authorities’ are Islamic. This is 2025, is that still ‘mad dogs’ of the revolution?

Even though it is all done by Muslims in the name of Islam, it’s nothing to do with Islam?

Maybe there needs to be a breakaway by and new name for the moderate Muslims that are appalled by all this?

My understanding (which hopefully is a correct recollection- I found this out when I got married 20 years ago!) is that the arrangement is not pro or favouring Church of England but that until relatively recently getting married in-the Church of England was the norm, and “registry office” ceremonies didn’t really exist.

My atheist grandparents have wedding photos outside an church so must’ve been married there; my parents married in a Catholic Church and have photos of them Signing the register with the priest who was presumably an authorised celebrant. I just don’t think people had the choice

Absolute poppycock, there is no discrimination whatsoever. Catholicism is a Christian religion and often has to have a civil ceremony.. NO the government don't need to recognise all religions. There are laws in place for marriage for a reason. The law of the land is final.

I'm not sure what you mean about Belgium. I'm in Belgium and EVERYONE needs a civil wedding, whether or not they have a religious wedding so it's not the same as what you're asking for. I think it's the same in France. You either get just a civil wedding or you get a civil one and also a religious (or humanist or whatever) one.

People can also be legal cohabitants, which is a separate thing and not (quite) a marriage.

Hang on I didn't say we should ban religious ceremonies! Just that celebrants should be required to see proof of registration first.

If people genuinely want a religious marriage without the legal part then perhaps there could be an ability to officially opt out but I'm not sure that's something we as a society want to encourage.

The issue is why a civil marriage is not carried out and i would assume the answer is that many men don't want it.

If pointing out the bad things enabled in the name of Islam looks bad, it shows there might be a problem that needs addressing

There is a problem which needs addressing, BundleBoogie, but as many muslims will tell you it won't be addressed while so many grovel at the very suggestion of Islamophobia. Never mind that the perpetrators being talked about are no nearer being muslims than I am - if it's a useful cloak they'll grab at it, and to hell with the countless decent muslims they're disadvantaging

The fact that too much of the "revolution" was being run by mad dogs and that there were sufficient who thought their way of doing things was a jolly good idea, enabling the baser urges which had been held in check in better days to be given free reign

In other words culture again - just as in Afghanistan, where western withdrawal led to an almost instant revival of the taliban because that's what too many welcomed

Nobody is ‘bashing’ Islam.

If pointing out the bad things enabled in the name of Islam looks bad, it shows there might be a problem that needs addressing.

Lots of issues around this have been suppressed and many actual crimes enabled because people are scared of being seen to criticise Islam. That is not healthy in a modern democracy.

We need to be able to talk about the issues, I’ve heard from a number of Muslims who feel the same.

Honor killings happen in few different cultures indipendently from the religion they follow;South Asia, some countries in Africa, even southmaditerranean countries like Italy and Greece. Nothing to do with religion.
How women lived in Afghanistan before is linked to ass licking of western countries, covering was forbidden tucking home women who didn't want to uncover.
Miniskirts weren't the traditional dress of Afghanistan, so what makes you think that it was normal to dress like that? Wasn't it because those in power were trying to follow UK and American fashions?
Easy to search up without stopping at those photos of women in miniskirts in Iran or Afghanistan, which wasn't the reality for most anyway.

Can you not see the common thread here though?

What caused such a sudden and drastic change to the ‘culture’ when the Islamic Republic was formed?

Religion is a living experience. There’s no point in divorcing the text from the reality women and children face.

Are you denying that so called ‘honour’ killings happen? It’s a hood job the government are paying more attention than you.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/honour-based-abuse-crackdown-in-raft-of-new-measures

Child marriage recrently revived in Iraq. Islam is the official religion and practised by 95-98% of the population.

https://www.walkfree.org/news/2025/iraqs-new-law-allowing-children-as-young-as-9-to-marry-undermines-women-and-girls-rights/

Afghanistan- women nut being allowed education, medical care or to go outside the home. You may be in denial but the UN are concerned.
news.un.org/en/story/2025/05/1162826

I didn’t mention FGM but in some places there are a greater proportion of Muslim practitioners. It is abhorrent whichever religion is doing it.

Although Muslim women are more likely to have their daughter circumcised, the findings suggest the importance of a collective rather than individual Muslim identity for the continuation of the practice.

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4064295/

You don’t read the news much?

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2024/05/08/1242306960/taliban-affirms-that-stoning-will-be-punishment-for-adulterers-especially-women

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/mar/28/taliban-edict-to-resume-stoning-women-to-death-met-with-horror

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-34714205?app-referrer=deep-link

If these countries such Afghanistan blocks women from going to school or forces everyone to wear niqab then they're going against the Islamic rules and teachings of the quran.
And they will face God on judgement day for this.

That’s all well and good but no one is stopping that in the here and now. So millions of women are oppressed in the name of Islam. Why are you denying it?

On the "distinction" I'd say it's the same for all the examples, BundleBoogie - if the culture enables acceptance of horrors committed (wrongly) in the name of the faith then I blame the culture

You're absolutely right that women in Iran enjoyed a very different life before 1979, just as they once did in Afghanistan and so many others, and yet still the culture - largely that of the men, admittedly - enabled the horrors we see now to take over

Leaving aside tthat Islam's held to be immutable this is also why "changing the tenets" almost certainly wouldn't work. The horror-mongers simply don't care that they're traducing their faith, knowing full well that they have allies among the useful idiots who insist that any adverse comment on their activities is based in Islamophobia

The line is that what comes from Quran and sunnah is religion, the rest is cultural. The name of the country or government doesn't matter.

Another Islam bashing thread. Again Muslim women are assumed to be meek, uneducated and uninformed.
Why the assumption that those 60% are unaware of the nikah not being valid, or that they are forced to accept a non legally binding marriage?
Did it cross your mind those women know and may accept it for whatever reason. They may prefer or not feel the need for a legal marriage, they may ey be second wives, lots of reason.
And as usual poster throwing FGM and cousin marriage or whatever as a proof of how bad Islam is, little did they know those are cultural practices with no basis in Islam.
But don't let fact stop you!

Tell me what misinformation I have posted.

We need to discuss this for the greater good. Discussion and honesty isn’t going to make you unsafe.

I have not posted anything ‘anti-Islam’ or ‘anti Muslim’, I have just posted facts about the practises that take place in the name of Islam. Despite you complaining of me posting misinformation you haven’t refuted anything I’ve reported.

If you don’t like how that looks I’d examine the issues with the religion a bit more closely.

I know there are lots of people who don’t agree with the bad things the religion is used to enable and I’m not making generalisations about Muslims but we need to be allowed to talk about the bad stuff as we are experiencing more of it here.

I actually went to a meeting at the MOJ about it. It’s also a problem in some parts of the Jewish community and not all synagogues are registered for civil marriage.

Sigh. Apparently a sticking point was that Muslim
teens have temporary weddings in order to have sex, so requiring registration of all Nikah ceremonies (which is what was being proposed) could have unwelcome consequences.

Where is your distinction between ‘culture’ and ‘oppressing women in the name of Islam’?

If a country of say, 97 million people, 99.4% of whom are Muslim and is run by Supreme Leadership Authority of the Islamic Republic of Iran has decided to remove women’s rights in the name of Islam, where is your line between the ‘culture’ and ‘religion’?

Same question about Afghanistan, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

Next question, before Iran became an Islamic Republic are you aware that women had rights and freedoms they can only dream of now?

Ditto Afghanistan. Etc

What’s the point in being given rights if they’re not enforceable?

Really? There is a 12% rate of infant mortality plus risk of serious congenital abnormalities if the mother is over 35? Do you have any data for that?

I have fact checked. I included some links upthread, one from an Islamic source. Feel free to point out any incorrect information in my posts if you can find any.

The religion, as practised by hundreds of millions is misogynistic. I can’t really believe that you are claiming a religion that is utilised to do so many horrendous things against women is not.

You may be arguing that on paper the basic tenets are not misogynistic but look at how it is practised in real life by millions. If those tenets are consistently being applied in a way that enables such terrible treatment of women across the world, including here, I think they need to change something fundamental about the religion.

I don’t have an ‘agenda against Muslims’. I am pointing out the realities experienced by millions every day. I was on the other thread trying to raise awareness of the common practises of religion that is growing in this country.

Have a think about why we have to spend so much on anti terrorist protection - Islamic terrorists are 75% of the case load of MI5. Why were concerts attracting vast numbers of young women and girls targeted for terrorist attacks?

Have a think about why all school teachers have to be trained in spotting signs of forced marriage and other abuses?

How many sisters, daughters and wives have been murdered in the UK in the name of this religion?

Please fact check before you post.

please do some more research before you post.

Most Christian denominations have the extra registry step. This is not a pro-Christian ruling, it's only in favour of those who are CofE.

Do you know what would be needed to recognise a religious ceremony?

1. The ceremony ensures marriage eligibility based on the British law
2. The ceremony is run by someone who fulfills state regulations
3. The ceremony is registered back to the state registry.

It is mechanically impossible to do it without interacting with the registry office.