Botox & frozen faces

which is why there is also a type of snobbery on here from some posters about how they’ve got the ‘best injector’

Oh give over. That's quite the reach.
Unless you just go to any random hairdresser; pick hotels out of the blue without reading the reviews; would use any workman advertising on your local Facebook group, etc etc?
It's not snobbery to want to spend your money on services that are good. It's common sense.

But you're not talking about culture and pressure. You're talking about women choosing to have procedures you have decided look awful, yet bizarrely given they look so bad, inspiring other women to emulate them. You are focusing on this one aspect of some women's behaviour as key to creating an environment where its not ok to look old.
This is a poor exploration of culture, and either demonstrates a very underdeveloped understanding of how our cultural norms have been set, why and by whom, or is a deliberate cherry picking of a factor for which you are able to blame women.

I didn’t say it was. Saying it’s women and not men is misogyny and erroneous though,

Botox has been in use since the 70s, first of all to treat crossed eyes, and was obviously subject to the same testing as any other medication at the time.

So it’s been around for half a century; I’d more readily opt for Botox than, say, Mounjaro, which has far fewer years of usage to look at.

As do your choices get influenced. You’re not superior as you make different choices. As said I don’t have Botox, but I don’t judge people who do, nor do I make misogynistic erroneous statements that it’s all women. Whatever drives you to judge other women needs to be examined. Be it unhappiness in your own appearance, envy of others, self soothing by slagging others off, who knows Except you. Deep down you know.

Huge industry of giving pets supplements to push back the ravages of time (and somewhat scammy tbh).

What is the social penalty, in your eyes? Honestly, it just seems you want to tear down other women.

Funnily enough, this thread made me think of the weight loss injections, and some people’s extreme reaction to those that are taking them. It’s this idea that you’re somehow ‘cheating’ and therefore making other people feel bad.

I guess there has been such advancements in medical techniques generally that the beauty industry was always going to exploit this for money - plastic surgery was initially developed to help disfigured soldiers, tretinoin was initially developed as acne medication, I’m sure there’s loads more examples..

You could also say OP that it’s unfair that wealthy people will get to access the best medical treatments available, when poorer people have to do without.

C’est la vie.

Just making it clear & underlining again, that the stuff I do to feel good about ME is for ME and my choice.
The botox, light lip filler (as my upperlip ‘disappears’), the mounjjaro, collagen supplements, nails & food I put in my body.
My standards are MINE, as is my body - and I feel fucking fabulous about myself, my looks & my choices.
What you choose to do to feel the same is YOUR business and impacts precisely zero on my life. As does what I do on yours. So why do you feel a need to opine about the choices of others so much?
it is NO different from criticising what women wear and frankly, it’s tedious & needless.
i am sure we are strong and self confident women aware of what we choose & why.

Same as weight loss injections. Decades ago when Botox came out the likes of the op were all over the injecting poision mantra. Any choice a woman makes, there is someone right behind her waiting to slag her off.

I never really ger these threads where people rake issue with other folks appearance, and then bizzarely deciding it is due to the patriarchy, like women are so thick they don’t know they’ve apparently been conditioned, and only the superior op and those like her know it.

women and men having been chasing youthful looks since the beginnings of time. Botox done well doesn’t give a frozen look. Only bad Botox does and no one deliberately wants bad Botox.

i don’t have it, but for me it’s no different to dying the greys out or wearing concealer to hide the baggy eyes.

live and let live. If you want to show your wrinkles good for you op. Seriously. But you don’t get to put down anyone who doesn’t.

and lastly plenty of men have these treatments, plenty. So misogynistic to think otherwise.

Botox doesn't make people look younger/less old. It makes them look unnaturally taut and plasticky

That's not true though is it. As pps have said, all Botox is not equal. Yes you see people who go for the fake look and get weird taut shiny foreheads. There was a great example of this on Strictly last night - one celeb who was emoting with the bottom half of her face but not the top. I wouldn't choose that for myself but that's up to her isn't it .. same goes for obviously fake boobs/eyelashes/lips etc.

But far more common nowadays is the "baby Botox" look which involves more gentle "smoothing out" and also acts as a preventative against getting deeper lines. Celeb-wise, the Duchess of Cambridge is a good example of this type of botox and she doesn't usually get accused of looking "plasticky" or fake. That's what the best injectors and unlimited cash can do though!

Not sure what all the fussing is about then. If treatments make people look awful then young women are not going to emulate them and aging women aren't going to feel pressure to have them. Everyone will just be looking at all the odd plastic old women and thinking thank goodness that's not compulsory. So a non issue. Yet strangely one the anti procedures people can't seem to leave alone.

Exactly this.

Botox doesn't make people look younger/less old. It makes them look unnaturally taut and plasticky.

Mostly, it makes them look uneven. Forehead of a 25 year old. Hands and neck of a 45 year old.

Maybe you should give your pets Botox.

“The pressure placed on women by society to look young and not commit the sin of aging is of concern to all women.”

I agree with this.

Previously it was a good haircut or getting your eyebrows done, or a new outfit to enhance ourselves, but retaining our own unique appearance and character. This was less invasive and expensive.

Nowadays the goal posts have moved and the “expectations” or “beauty standards” have changed. The pressure to conform to these, especially in certain industries eg tv/media is huge and mostly aimed at women. Men are not held to the same harsh standards.

The more women who decide to have these invasive treatments, even if they choose to do it for themselves, the more pressure there is on other women to conform too. It is effectively good marketing, by companies praying on women’s insecurities.

another problem is the cost of the treatments. None of these invasive treatments are cheap, and most of them require ongoing maintenance on the one hand people are complaining about the cost of living, on the other hand people are spending hundreds of pounds on injecting substances into their faces to halt the inevitable .

I don’t judge people for having these treatments, I haven’t had any, but I do understand the pressure and wanting to like what you see in the mirror. I can always tell when anyone has had even subtle treatments though, because it’s normal to have a few lines on your forehead or around your eyes.

In some respect, I wish we could go back to the old days where there was less pressure on how people looked, and everyone had their own individual quirks, but I don’t think that is likely to happen any time soon.

Okay 🤷🏻‍♀️

I like the way I look, and I like Botox. If other people don’t like either then that’s fine. They don’t have to.

I have it done and it makes me feel a bit more confident. Only have lines under my eyes done and Botox definitely does not eliminate them completely just softens them so more of a subtle difference really.
Didn’t start Botox till my 40s don’t think you need it before then tbh.

We hold ourselves to higher standards. That’s a good thing.

Men often let themselves go because they fundamentally don’t care what other people think about their appearance. I don’t think that’s a good thing tbh. But you’ll note that higher status men DO in fact keep themselves to higher standards. It’s signaling something positive about them.