Botox & frozen faces

I can tell you that - I type fast and I'm naturally sarcastic. I do appreciate it can be a bit overwhelming to read, but I assure you it takes very little out of me. And I thought it was obvious, but it's not about you not agreeing with me, it's about you placing a moral value on something that has no moral value and therefore declaring everyone who doesn't agree with you as morally dubious. You've called me and other women vain, shallow, unattractive, snobs, bad female relations and so on because we get a small, very common procedure done that you can't bring yourself to do. Obviously it's not true, so it doesn't hurt my feelings, but yes it is irritating to be moralised at by someone who's wrong and has no place to be doing it, and if I feel like giving my response then I will.

And I say it's obvious that you want Botox because it is obvious that you do. You think women who get it haven't seen the overdone frozen faces and heard all the cruel jibes and moralistic rebukes like yours? You think we weren't ever concerned? I was worried but after a while my 11s following my horrible tragedy were so deep and horrid, I decided I'd look into it. The practitioner was a doctor whom I trusted (because I'm a snob, remember) and I was honest about my concerns. He talked me through it, made it clear how you get that effect and that he would not do wrong by his patients, explained he had it done himself, and I decided to go for it. I am totally happy with it and you'd be amazed, and very disappointed, if you saw how totally ordinary I look.

Nobody goes at it like you are out of altruistic concern for the younger generation or whatever. You very, very clearly would like to get it done but you think it's beneath you. That's up to you but stop blaming those of us who don't buy the rubbish you're selling.

I started having botox (with an ex doctor) for migraines. It's amazing. But as a side effect, it also reduced my frown lines which appeared when I was about 20 after a lifetime of frowning. Now 42, in my very late 30s I also started getting lines across my forehead (faint but there) and the botox also helped those. However, as a skilled medical professional, he knows his stuff and the dose I get means I don't ever look frozen. It softens everything and freshens me up.

I started in March 2022 at the age of 39, for migraines. I've been having it every 5 months ever since, and if I can afford to I will continue as it helps the migraines and stress feeling in my face, and makes me feel good.

What you are seeing as overly done faces, are people having high doses alongside fillers.

You show me the evidence of young women whose lives were ruined because their totally normal and everyday mothers had a minor cosmetic procedure every few months that they probably don't even know about, and I will laugh at you. Wow, a vapid hag, a snob and now a terrible mother, aunt etc. Imagine what I could do if I wanted to do harm. Today a small cosmetic procedure, tomorrow THE WORLD!!!!

I would say I don't know why you have such a ridiculously exaggerated idea of the effect Botox can have on its own, both as a procedure and a societal influence, but we all do. Just get it done, ffs. You will be much happier than you clearly are flailing around on the Internet flinging anything you think might stick about it. You'll probably be disappointed at how little anyone notices or cares.

You're right, women who have Botox NEVER check out the effect by talking or moving in the mirror. Or asking people they trust what it looks like. Because as well as bring vain, vapid, ugly, terrible mothers, snobs and all that, we're also totally disinterested in the effect we paid to get and whether it's doing what we want! We are whatever you need us to be!

I don't think you can see yourselves talking and listening. A still look at yourself in the mirror or a photograph is not the same as what those around you see when you are in animation (or non-animation, as the case may be).

Well we can see ourselves and you can't, so forgive me for trusting what I see in the mirror more than what you, with presumably no experience of this, have made up in your head. As for influencing younger women, you flatter me. Young women are influenced by social media, celebrities and music videos. They are not influenced by obscure, ordinary looking middle aged women who get their 11s done discreetly when they're not working, doing the school run or loading the dishwasher.

I know a few people who had lip filler. As with anything, of course it can be done badly and we've all seen examples. But these people had lips so thin they were almost invisible. Now they just have what look like thin lips. There would have been nothing wrong with them embracing how they looked before, but I can absolutely understand why they feel a bit happier now.

Thanks for explaining the bleeding obvious, more than once, so I don't have to.

It's so funny that the thing missing from all these "telltale signs of Botox" articles is always the blindingly obvious THE LINES ARE GONE. I thought when I first got it done that everyone would notice my 11s were gone as they were quite deep, but nobody did. I think they just thought I was now sleeping and eating better and looking fresher. But even when it is as simple as THE LINES ARE GONE, it somehow gets complicated into a supernatural "sheen" as the light bounces off it differently... yes, of course it looks different when you have light on it and can see it. THE LINES ARE GONE! CUT THE X FILES MUSIC, IT IS NOT THAT STRANGE! I have a naturally smooth forehead with no worry lines right now. Yes, it looks different to my mother's forehead, by which I mean smoother or light reflects differently or whatever you want to call it, and I have no doubt it'll look different in ten years' time. Even if I Botox it, it won't get a stretched look unless I get filler or surgery, which I'm not planning ever to do.

Guys, loads and loads of people get Botox and most of us are happy about it. It's hugely popular for a reason. Get over it, ffs.

I'm not sure how that's relevent? A person mocking you doesn't mean that every woman who has procedures is invested and defensive by default, or has an ulterior motive. Mostly we just get on with it quietly. But this thread asked questions only we can answer. If those answers are not accepted then it's obvious we keep going. That's what discussion is.

It's arrogant and disrespectful and of course people will be moved to challenge you.

I have been "challenged", as you put it - aka mocked and ridiculed - for making this simple statement:

Having a highly poisonous toxin injected into your face, which is right next to your brain, is indeed a really weird thing to do and to have normalised.

Apparently, or so I've been told, the face is nowhere near the brain. Okay...

About 4yrs ago I had botox in my forehead. Just a little bit to see if it would flatten out my lines. I did consider a fringe, but my hairdresser vetoed it!!!

Unfortunately the botox migrated to my eye, which meant I looked like a stroke victim for about 4 weeks. But if it hadn't of happened, I would have continued to have it done.

I tried lip filler once too. Cost an absolute fortune, hurt like hell ... and I really couldn't tell any difference.

Funny. It always strikes me as the other way round entirely.
When was the last time you saw a thread outside of maybe S&B started by someone wanting to extol the benefits of botox and persuade other women they really should get it?
People who have procedures tend to just mind their business and get on with it. Its people for whom it's nothing to do with their lives who are always the most invested.
Thread after thread asking the same questions "why do women want to look like plastic aliens/inject POISON!!!/have low self esteem/look OLDER!!!/be a bad influence on
young women...?"
Ask those questions and its obvious responses are going to come from women who have procedures, because those who don't can add nothing but a little extra flurry of disapproval.
People who have procedures explain their thinking and describe their experience. They share their superior knowledge of a product that unlike the disapprovers, they actually have personal experience of.
And in return get told they are wrong. That strangers know more about their psychology and appearance than they do, have seemingly researched and have greater expertise about a product they have no intention of using than those who do. It's arrogant and disrespectful and of course people will be moved to challenge you.

I wonder about that. People who do a lot of skin tightening procedures also get a shiny look.

There really is not point in trying to point out reality on these sorts of threads. People are so invested and defensive of this product, you would think they must have masses of shares in the manufacturers.

People actually have suggested this, albeit not on this thread. People who wouldn't touch botox with a barge pole, no interest, totally 'secure', you see, always seem to claim a detailed knowledge of the ins and outs of it, much of which is incorrect.
Yes, I read the parts you quoted. They are explaining why the skin is so smooth it reflects light.

It is a result of excessive muscle contraction. Ergo, it is a side-effect of Botox when used by some practitioners on some women. However, the doctor answering that question also mentioned the effect of Botox on the pilosebaceous units and the piloerector muscles of the actual skin.

The pilosebaceous unit is a complex structure in the skin that includes a hair follicle, sebaceous gland, and arrector pili muscle, playing a crucial role in hair growth and skin lubrication.

Piloerector muscles, also known as arrector pili muscles, are small smooth muscles attached to hair follicles that cause hair to stand on end, resulting in the phenomenon known as goosebumps.

So, it is not simply the skin is smoothed out.

Not every woman develops a super shiny forehead, or a prominent forehead vein, but both are known side-effects of Botox.

My point was, it's not the substance sitting under the skin creating an alien like glow from within as some people seem to think. It's basic physics.

No-one is suggesting that. And as above, it is more than just 'basic physics'.

Yes, it explains that as a result of making things smooth light is reflected. My point was, it's not the substance sitting under the skin creating an alien like glow from within as some people seem to think. It's basic physics.

It is a side-effect of Botox use - some women even seek it out.

It is explained here (and elsewhere):

Why Does Botox Make Forehead Look Shiny?

Well, yes, shining a light onto a smooth surface will obviously cause shine. But thats all it is, not some mysterious subdermal phenomenon. Its just like a man suffering the 'side- effect' of being bald.

I think there’s a difference between a friendly debate and a ‘it looks bad and you are a morally bad person for doing it’.

I think the ‘it looks bad and we can tell u do it’ is an incredibly unhelpful position

In this instance, it was a camera flash. But Botox shine - shiny forehead, eg Marcia Cross in Desperate Housewives - is a known side-effect of Botox.

It's not a "side effect" to look different in visible light when you've had a procedure to look different. It was the camera flash and she hadn't had Botox. She had, however, been bullied all her life for her looks because people thought she'd had procedures she hadn't had and never guessed the one she had.

You were the one chortling over the notion of botox in the face being near the brain. The FDA have given it a black box warning because of its proximity to the brain and potential for neurological side-effects.