To think of your child is 5+ and still can’t behave in public, you’re the problem?

I agree with you.
But the poor / lax parenting is also affecting people with SEN. (People like myself and my daughter)

for instance, we'll be in a quiet cafe and there's kids running riot, shrieking and whaling and the parents just do a pathetic 'oh Oscar quiet please' and it ruins every bodies experience. It over stimulates my daughter and I. Of course, usual noise will happen but children having screaming contests and who can make the most high pitched noise isn't right. I live in a small but busy market town and there is constantly children running in the road because their parents are busy looking on their phones. Sticky hands touching all the little trinkets in the independent shops. There have been a few posts from business owners as a reminder not to let their children touch as they are breaking things or getting ice cream or the likes on clothes.
A waitress recently got burned carrying out coffee to a table in the local Harris + Hoole due to a child running riot in the cafe. Unacceptable.

Things like that are shit parenting. Lack of awareness and a whiff of 'oh kids will be kids.' I, as a SEN mum and neurodivergent myself see the OPs point completely. There is a huge difference between lax parenting and judging / picking on SEN children. Nobody is saying anything about the children. It's the parents in question. SEN or not, the parents have a responsibility to keep their children and other people safe.

I wouldn’t judge tbh. My oldest son is the most gentle person and wouldn’t hurt a fly, my youngest is an absolute monkey and much more difficult to deal with. I’ve not been that different with them, but one child was significantly easier to discipline. On that note, my oldest was a nightmare to potty train it took about 3 years, youngest all it took was a conversation and overnight it was done.

There's this odd idea that children are born with an "SEN" or "not SEN" label on their heads.

In reality, many parents won't know that their kids have SEN until they're well past the small children tantruming in public phase. They'll have an inkling that something isn't right and they'll blame their child or their parenting and family life will get tougher and tougher. But especially if their needs aren't acute, often children aren't diagnosed until much later, including secondary school level, or they slip through the net altogether.

I am not saying poor parenting doesn't exist or anything absurd like that, although people should remember that parents hopefully know their children best and may be parenting in the way that they know their child is most likely to respond to, even if it appears odd to outsiders.

But it's worth remembering that what parents and children really need is support and there is less and less of it around. There are many pressures on family life nowadays, many children are growing up in very stressful circumstances, it's a tricky world for them to navigate and an unacceptably large number are experiencing poverty and deprivation. What we're often seeing is children who, for whatever reason, can't cope with the demands being put on them rather than are just being naughty for the fun of it.

But this thread doesn't apply to you, if you've read the OPs post. She has explicitly said this thread is NOT about any children with SEN.

Can I ask what age you are OP i ask this as my parents would have grounded me for behaving badly in public .my children have been raised with manners they say please and thank are respectfully to elders.however they will still have the occasional tantrum in a shop when I say no .I couldn't sit in a pub with my son with adhd its just too much for him if I tried it would be a nightmare he would be constantly getting up spinning on chairs.aother families might not have a choice but to take there kids with them.
Also parents have alot to cope with now alot more than ever before 2 working parents poor mental health money troubles poor health lack of family support .This doesn't make for bad people or parents or kids just a different society.

I’m not expecting “impeccable” behaviour, just some evidence that the adults are guiding and supporting the child, rather than ignoring or excusing behaviour that affects others

You aren't entitled to "evidence" of anything. You really are completely oblivious to how ignorant you are.

For example, one of the particular challenges my disabled child faces is transitions (I doubt you know what this means in the context of autism, so I suggest a cursory Google). When he is dysregulated and trying to navigate a transition, the quickest and best way to get him through it is to do nothing. Absolutely nothing. Because he cannot process any additional input at that point. Any attempt to reason, to comfort or to distract would inflame the situation. If left alone, he can quite often pull himself through and regulate himself. If not then obviously we would remove him from the environment (for his benefit, not yours). Almost all the judgement we face from strangers is around this exact situation - a complete lack of understanding that parenting looks different for some families.

Instead of pointlessly pontificating about the behaviour of children you don't know and "wider conversations", it seems to me that you would better spend your time improving your knowledge and attitude towards the many people you share a society with who don't conform to your narrow ideas of what a family should look like.

Climbing on furniture in pubs and restaurants. Shouting and screaming. Running around. Showing grandad the new dance they have learned....including stamping and jumping. Grrrrr. This gentle parenting is an excuse for laziness.

🤣 I think I love you. This is amazing

You are undoubtedly talking about families like mine, because you don't possess some kind of magical internal "special needs radar". You are exactly the kind of person who makes life difficult for families of disabled kids.

Almost every time we leave the house, someone like you is staring at us or making comments. I'm sure they would all say the same as you, that they wouldn't dream of judging a disabled child. And yet they do. Because DS doesn't have "I am autistic, non-verbal, partially deaf and have a learning disability" tattooed on his forehead. Contrary to popular opinion, no it's not always obvious to bystanders. He doesn't look any different to any other kid his age.

That's the thing about ignorant people. They don't know they are ignorant.

This. I think this thread is disgusting. My sons are autistic (though you wouldn'tbe able to tell at a glance). They are usually pretty good in public to be fair, and I'm quite strict with them, but when dysregulated they can struggle. I do my best. I'm a schoolteacher and have excellent discipline. I've read loads on child development, autism, behaviour etc. But it isn't always plain sailing. To have to know that there are people like you, judging me and my kids, and blaming me? Despicable.

You wouldn't be able to tell from looking at my child that she has quite significant additional needs. That's why they're called "invisible" disabilities.

But I guess that's why she has her sunflower lanyard - to provide low-functioning neurotypicals with the visual supports that they need to help with the impulse control to stop them from being a judgemental arsehole in public. Of course I do recognise that they might find that hard and have a meltdown when they get home, sometimes venting their frustration in a public forum for example. I can't help but wonder though, if their parents had just been a bit firmer, would they still be as incapacitated in that regard?

Consequences are great when a child is in a position to make a rational decision of cost/benefit.

When they are reacting emotionally consequences are pointless. The rational parts of their brain don't operate. Nor do adults after a certain point of emotional arousal.

Consequences.

Yes. Very!

I am really impressed at your ability to establish at a glance that there are no neurodiversity issues at play in any of these situations @ThatDeepGoose. You should get a job with the NHS, I think you'll clear their 2 year waiting list for diagnosis in about 2 weeks. Brilliant.

I also took advice from specialists, which was to understand the difference between 'can't' comply with demands, and 'doesn't want to' comply with demands.

You can't punished or reward a child out of not complying if they simply aren't able to. Which is why I never punished DD when I had to restrain her. She had a toddler's emotions in a 6 or 7 year old body. She was distressed and embarrassed afterwards, and desperate to reconnect and be reassured that I still loved her.

A lot of ill informed people said she should be punished for 'bad behaviour'. The crazy thing was she was desperate to comply and get approval, but she just couldn't.

Thank goodness her secondary school were trauma informed and 'got' her. They appreciated she was doing her best, and that allowed her to relax and trust them - to the extent she stopped self harming.

She is now thriving at College, and at work (some paid, some voluntary - she is very much valued at both).

People know what you mean OP they're just being deliberately obtuse. There's heaps of badly behaved kids shrieking round dinner tables or hitting or whatever else, and there's no chance they all have additional needs.

it's clear you're not on about an isolated incident or a one off melt down. I agree with you. Lazy wishy washy parenting is at an all time high.

I see someone has their stinky, judgypants on 🙄

Maybe you should be given powers of immediate confiscation, OP. Patrol supermarkets and cafes, sweep all the misbehaving children up, take them to special centres, and Follow Through. You could be the Child Misbehaviour Tsar.

OP I would have agreed with you until I started having children of my own 🙈

I think we see a snapshot of someone's family life in these instances, so how do you know how they are behaving 10 minutes later?

Only thing that bothers me about kids is seeing them glued to a smartphone in the trolley / buggy. That's where I've moved my judginess.

Yanbu but people always will defend their dc. I have a dc with asd and I didn’t stand for poor behaviour from her, I got excellent advice from her specialist aged 2, that I should have high expectations and not make excuses, I took that and ran with it, worked for us

Op your post is very timely as I was at a local outside event today that had a marquee in the grounds that wasn't being used. There were 4 small children ranging from 3-5 years old inside it running and jumping on top of a line of trestle tables like it was playground equipment. The parents were all outside watching them do it! I've never seen such stupid, disrespectful and dangerous behaviour in all my life. We informed the organiser who put a stop to it. She was also really shocked. The really confusing thing is that there was a playground, bouncy castle, sports equipment, etc all free next door to the marquee so lots to keep the little ones occupied.

OP, what were you hoping to gain or glean from this thread?

Honestly OP I think YABU. Of course some people parent poorly but you’re throwing around a lot of vague generalisations, assumptions and judgements based on one-off observations of a bunch of unknown parents and children that you really know nothing about.

I think the best conclusion you can draw is all parents parent poorly sometimes and all children behave poorly sometimes .