To think of your child is 5+ and still can’t behave in public, you’re the problem?

Would I be being obtuse if I blamed it on the telly? Little by little, values have been stifled and bad behaviour just as bad language has become the norm. I used to blame it on following the US who introduced gentle parenting decades before Europe and look where that got them - storming the Capitol !

😂

And it doesn't look like they understand developmental delays either even though they think they do, and can miraculously tell just by looking at children whether they have them or not.

Brains mature at different rates. Perfectly behaved kids turn into crazed hormonal animals when they hit their teens, then grow into perfectly reasonable adults. Some kids struggle when they are younger.

Is this another political campaign on here, because these forums are getting hammered with "I blame the parents" generalisation threads. I wonder if the government or Reform are priming people to agree and accept short sighted, socially damaging policies in order to save a few quid. 🤔 When threads get hammered with the same topic, there is usually something like that in the pipeline.

@ThatDeepGoose A MN thread isn't going to persuade people support bad policies.

Looks, depends how you cope!

Agree about resilience. My Dad used to say 'life is basically unfair' and I instilled this into my kids. There is always someone with power over you who you need to please to have peace and quiet - teachers, coaches, bosses. It never ends! The swallow it and grin often works if you help them have the confidence. Earlier you start, easier it is.

Respectfully, how do you know if a child has additional needs? They don’t wear hi vis jackets to identify themselves.

I find it fascinating how strangers can pass judgement on a 30 second snapshot in public. Suddenly they know their entire family history and how their parents are lazy and sit on their phones all day.

Where I work I have to deal with middle aged people who throw tantrums. Do I think their parents failed them and raised them to be brats? Or maybe they had a hell of a fucking week and it just so happened that something broke the camels back.

I’m not really interested in the disparaging looks, in all honesty. He’s not their kid.

It is, but how do we teach kids resilience to doing things they don’t want to, or being in situations they find difficult, if we don’t make them get through them.

AIBU completely!

1. you cant tell if a child has additional needs but just looking at them.
2. you have no idea other than that snapshot in time what that child is like
3. you have no idea what that parent has done at home or what follow throughs there might be when you aren't there.

My DS once had a tantrum in a shop. He'll usually push the boundaries with the constant asking for things but had a full on tantrum. I was in the queue to pay. I left him to tantrum and picked him up on my way out. That day he just had enough emotionally and it came out that way. Those people openly judging me made me feel like a crap mum. The one person who came up to me and gave me a hug and said we have all been there reminding me it doesn't matter what judgy people think as they have no idea what your life is like.

Ignoring was my solution for years but strangers certainly gave me some disparaging looks. I have to smile at doing things we don't want to - isn't that life in general and not just childhood!

If the behaviour is contained to only affect those with the child fine but if a parent is deliberately ignoring a child having a full on tantrum and doing nothing so other people have to put up with 20 mins of screaming not on

Take the child outside the shop or wherever they can continue the tantrum there

How do you know whether they have additional needs before you judge them? My son doesn’t “look neurodiverse” - but he has autism, adhd and dyspraxia. How exactly are you singling out “the bad ones” from the “additional needs ones?”

Planned ignoring is a form of behaviour management.

We ignore minor behaviour from my son all the time, because what’s he’s looking for is a reaction and not getting one teaches him that’s not how to get attention, and in the long run he’ll stop trying to get it that way - because it won’t have the desired outcome. So that could be what you’re seeing when someone isn’t defusing something.

Kids who hate food shopping should obviously be taught strategies to manage that that don’t involve throwing things around. But that takes time. We’re (likely) talking about kids who are still learning the ability to do things they don’t want to do.

OK so, in a couple of lines, how can a carer avoid disruption in a public space ? (Not an ironic question(

Is your last paragraph aimed at the Mum who doesn't seem to be defusing the situation? Sometimes kids just hate food shopping but perk up in the toy section. That's pretty understandable but how can you deal with it ?

I don't think I did. Like a PP, I've worked with children - children with SEN in particular- nearly all my working life and even I can't tell which strangers are likely to have SEN from watching them and their parents in public for 30 mins or an hour. How could OP possibly know which behaviours are down to SEND and which are down to parenting? Even if she thinks the parenting being displayed at the time is a bit crap, she has no idea of the full picture.

OP has never shown any hatred towards children or if so, kindly point it out.

I would never, ever refer to any of those people as being a pain in the arse.

You are being called out for so many things! Mainly about kids with special needs. The whole point about them is that they are 'special' and can't be judged in the same way. You have been very clear that these are not the kids you are talking about. Very little has been said on your thread about good manners. In my view, good manners have mostly to do with not bothering or offending others. I don't know if it's allowed but this article explains it best. To 'do as you're told', especially at age 5 is probably better than 'please do this, if you agree'. https://www.theguardian.com/society/commentisfree/2023/sep/17/kids-children-good-manners-blind-obedience

Yawn

I would agree with you but there are awful lot of adults who can’t behave in public too:
speaking/shouting far too loudly, horrible laughs in restaurants. Especially people in groups.
Getting drunk and behaving badly with it.
Angry behaviour in shops towards other customers and the poor shop assistants.
Smoking or vaping in places where it is not allowed.
Putting your feet or dogs on train seats.
I really could go on and on………

In most cases I would prefer badly behaved children,

Kids don’t just misbehave for no reason.

Behaviour is either an unmet need, or a form of communication. They don’t just wake up and think “I’m gonna throw things around and wind up strangers today!”

What people who actually understand behaviour try and do is work out why a child is behaving a certain way, and address that.

He’s “slinging m&ms around” for a reason. Either because he’s ND and in crisis, or because he’s unable to regulate emotionally, or because he’s trying to communicate something to whoever is with him.

Could be anything. But the point is - you don’t know why either, and I’m assuming won’t be doing anything to rectify the situation, so really should keep your nose out.

This. I dare say not following through is common, so children soon learn that words mean nothing.

I used to work in a library where a woman with twin girls of maybe 7 was a regular. Absolutely every time, the kids would play up, running around with loud squealing, and the hopelessly wet mother would eventually tell them that if they didn’t behave, there would be no video/DVD to take home. (Some years ago now.)

So they’d end up back at the counter with no DVD, and the kids would then start very noisy wailing, whereupon the mother would give that helpless ‘What can you do?’ shrug, and say, ‘Oh, go on and choose one then…’.
Cue instant beams of triumph - we’ve won again!

Every time!

It means mind your own bloody business and don't be so judgemental. I can't bear little kids but I know I'm biased. It isn't the kids fault, it's mine.

So are you saying that we have to consider that since 'an estimated 15-20% of children and young people in the UK are neurodivergent', we must stipulate the 'children' are neurotypical or neurodivergent or not notably neurodivergent?

As you don't know which children have additional needs or what age the child acting up is YABU.
Some kids are badly behaved but usually it's a case of most kids act up some of the time.
A five year old may be having a tantrum but for all you know it's the first tantrum they've had in months.
Children aren't always in control of their emotions and they can come out at anytime, particularly if they've been well behaved all day at school.
I don't see many children hitting their siblings but if they do, how do you know the parents don't deal with it at home? Much harder to deal with in public.
There are, as I said some children who misbehave/constantly push boundaries/ignore their parents in public but unless you know the family how can you tell if you've just seen them at a bad moment or if this normal everyday life for this family?

They all have their days in my experience! Also the children should be seen but not heard school of thinking is not universal.

So she hates all children?

Because no one can assess neurodiversity just from observing a child in public.