I'm in my 40s and sometimes I behave badly outside of the house. I don't consider myself to have a problem, merely to be a human with pretty average emotions. Same for children.

If bad behaviour is healthy development, what is good behaviour in your view?

That’s exactly why I was careful to say I’m not talking about toddlers or children with additional needs. My post is about situations where it’s clear the child is just left to act out and there’s zero follow-through from the adults, not about hidden diagnoses or snap judgements.

Oh goody, a thread to criticise hypothetical people whose lives you know nothing about, based on a snapshot of behaviour, so you can feel smug and validated about your superior parenting and well behaved children. Have a ⭐️

Soeey of interest should have read 'relevant'.

I am reading that OP is saying that up to 5, no parent can be expected for a child to have good manners and behave properly. I don't think she is necessarily talking about others' children, could be to do with her own difficulties managing her own children.

I would like to give a 'relevant' example. I was always a rather strict Mum (generally to apease the grandparents![ then one day in a supermarket car park, I proved it could be worthwhile. I had 3 - 3, 4 and 6, out of the car and was fiddling with the car seat and stroller for the tiddler. I had said not to move but of course they took no notice. Then, out of the corner of my eye, I saw a car coming fast and I literally screamed 'freeze' which they did. I have re-lived that moment for years but I know lots of people must have thought I was a horrible Mum.

"Only"? Don't you think 15%-20% is... erm... quite a significant proportionof the population? And that as the OP has no idea which of the kids/families she judges are ND, her claim that this isn't about ND kids is ridiculous?

And who on earth said that other people's replies aren't of interest?

... You do realise that your post makes absolutely no sense don't you? 🙈

How do you know whether they have additional needs before you judge them? My son doesn’t “look neurodiverse” - but he has autism, adhd and dyspraxia. How exactly are you singling out “the bad ones” from the “additional needs ones?”

Hard disagree OP. I think we have exceptionally high standard for children’s behaviour when actually there are a lot of adults who cannot regulate their own emotions and act out in adult ways.
Children misbehaving is not pleasant, but it is a sign of healthy development. It’s not normal for children to be well behaved all the time and if you’re only seeing snippets then you really have no idea whether it’s normal kid stuff or something else.

So, even if the OP is talking about ALL children (of whom only 15/20% are neurodivergent( don't you think people's replies are of interest ?

No. You are wrong. The OP is making judgements about the people she sees out and about and will often have no clue if a child is neurodivergent or not. Not all disabilities are visible, yet she proceeds to judge anyway. My own son is autistic and has ADHD but doesn't have a neon sign above his head to state this
She wouldn't know. Therefore this thread includes ALL children that the OP might see in public... including the previous poster's ADHD child. Hope that's clear enough for you.

Things like screaming for attention, running around in restaurants, hitting siblings in the supermarket while the parents just shrug. Not taking about toddlers or kids with additional needs, just when there’s clearly no structure or follow-through at home.

So what is your point? This whole thread only concerns he behaviour of neurotypical children so why are you explaining about the difficulties of others?

Respectfully, how do you know if a child has additional needs? They don’t wear hi vis jackets to identify themselves.

I find it fascinating how strangers can pass judgement on a 30 second snapshot in public. Suddenly they know their entire family history and how their parents are lazy and sit on their phones all day.

Where I work I have to deal with middle aged people who throw tantrums. Do I think their parents failed them and raised them to be brats? Or maybe they had a hell of a fucking week and it just so happened that something broke the camels back.

Actually, are you aware that ADHD can override anything, including manners?

My DC has beautiful manners and when on her ADHD medication, is the model of a polite little English girl. Awards from school, comments from strangers on how polite she is. Even a commendation for helping others. Please, thank you, may I, is it possible etc etc.

Without medication? A human jumping bean and noise machine. interrupts. Inappropriate comments. Needs to be held tightly by one hand despite her age or she's out of control. She has no impulse control and has no sense of risk so is in danger in some environments.

The medicated and unmedicated behaviours are night and day. Yet we've had public comments, constant, ongoing reports from school, side-eye looks from other parents. She literally can't help it but as far as other adults are concerned, she's a rude, aggressive brat.

I reiterate. An observer can't tell the difference.

So what is your point? This whole thread only concerns he behaviour of neurotypical children so why are you explaining about the difficulties of others?

I understand developmental delays, this isn’t about that. It’s about basic manners not being taught.

Actually, are you aware that ADHD can override anything, including manners?

My DC has beautiful manners and when on her ADHD medication, is the model of a polite little English girl. Awards from school, comments from strangers on how polite she is. Even a commendation for helping others. Please, thank you, may I, is it possible etc etc.

Without medication? A human jumping bean and noise machine. interrupts. Inappropriate comments. Needs to be held tightly by one hand despite her age or she's out of control. She has no impulse control and has no sense of risk so is in danger in some environments.

The medicated and unmedicated behaviours are night and day. Yet we've had public comments, constant, ongoing reports from school, side-eye looks from other parents. She literally can't help it but as far as other adults are concerned, she's a rude, aggressive brat.

I reiterate. An observer can't tell the difference.

You are being called out for so many things! Mainly about kids with special needs. The whole point about them is that they are 'special' and can't be judged in the same way. You have been very clear that these are not the kids you are talking about. Very little has been said on your thread about good manners. In my view, good manners have mostly to do with not bothering or offending others. I don't know if it's allowed but this article explains it best. To 'do as you're told', especially at age 5 is probably better than 'please do this, if you agree'. https://www.theguardian.com/society/commentisfree/2023/sep/17/kids-children-good-manners-blind-obedience

Everywhere you go where there are children, they are screaming. They can’t all have something wrong with them and each time the parents are oblivious whilst everyone else’s nerves are shattered by the chimpanzee antics of the children.

I actively avoid going into supermarkets or shops when children have finished school.