A wave of illiterate “home schooled” children

I’m watching my SIL doing this and it’s awful. SIL cannot educate to the level required and we get a constant Facebook feed about lovely arts and crafts like the stuff done in reception but how is DN going to pass a GCSE? SIL cannot cope with life and schedules so I feel this is her issue more than DN. DN is sadly obese and did get bullied. SIL posts alot about DN being lonely. The whole situation makes me feel incredibly sad for DN.

There are so many assumptions on this thread, mainly from people with no personal experience of home education.

There's a home ed group near me (whoops i think I'm supposed to say "unschooled")

They are very open about coaching each other on how to fill in the local authority forms to justify almost anything you could spend time doing as "education". Most of it is the ordinary life skills most DC learn either at home or in things like scouts/hobbies. Eg stuff like caring for pets, cooking, various home & garden tasks. One friend told me proudly her home ed 8 yr old was really "self led" and had learned "so much through his own projects". He'd been in my DCs class until ks2. He went back to school 2 years later and was very behind in everything except maths which he was very able at and had been ahead before he left. I think some home edders don't realise quite how much they cover in primary school these days.

I was a school governor for a bit and the secretary told me they regularly had home edders getting in touch asking if their dc could join our choir or after school football/chess/coding clubs, preferably for free. Some of them would apparently get quite irate that this wasn't possible.

Exactly home Ed is a valid choice

some families choose to home Ed because it's right for their family

Sometimes it's the only choice parents have when their child has so much school trauma they are suicidal or bacuse the LA refused to meet the child's needs (SEN)

I haven't said that school is "some kind of horrific prison", my daughter went there for five years and quite enjoyed it at times. I said that the closest replication to the level of rules and restrictions is prison - I contemplated saying the army, but even that is a choice.

School removes all choice
Education opens up choices, it gives access to the potential jobs for a start.
Schools aren't the only way of providing education but they are an easier and more consistent one than most parents could offer through home schooling.

"It's still a choice, the choice you make to ensure you don't starve."

Um no, ensuring I don't starve isn't really a choice.

As for your example of leaving a job where I'm bullied. Yes, I can do that if I have savings. People with no savings can't do that because if you leave a job voluntarily, there 's no unemployment benefit and you may not be able to prove you were bullied to claim constructive dismissal.

Children can go to different schools as well, if you want to be really literal about choices.

As you say your child likes school. But for the children who have suffered trauma at school the prison example is appropriate

Lots of pp including me have said that they'd home ed their kids if school didn't work out, I think most parents if they were able would not force their kids into school unless it was for the overall best option or would find a way of supporting them through it. I think the making out that school is some kind of horrific prison isn't particularly helpful. My eldest is currently my only one in school but he likes it, it's not a prison and he asks to go on the weekends 😂 I appreciate it's not like that for all kids, but for many it is, so to make out it's a prison seems odd.

It's still a choice, the choice you make to ensure you don't starve.

And worker has rights you don't have in school

You can choose where to work and you can look for other work if you aren't happy at one workplace

There are lots of different types of employment opportunities even if low skilled. Some people may prefer stacking shelves, others factory work, others cleaning jobs or waitressing
These are choices
Having choices is empowerment

School removes all choice

You are, though. You are allowed to choose not to go to work, or to change your job, or not to work at all - you may have no access to money, but you are allowed to choose that. If you're unsatisfied or facing workplace bullying or dealing with an overbearing boss, you can hand in your notice and jump on Indeed, or take some annual leave at a time that you choose for a break. School pupils can't do that.

"We aren't forced to work against our will."

Of course we are. If I don't work, I'll starve. Unemployment benefit isn't enough to live on permanently. I don't know about parents, but childless people can't live a healthy life on benefits.

We don't choose where we work either unless highly skilled. We work where we can get a job.

people do choose to work.
We make the choice so that we can have the things we need and want
We also choose where to work

We aren't forced to work against our will.

If we are ill we get signed off work and if work is damaging our health we can find other work. If we are getting bullied at work then we can use the policies and laws to protect us

When we are ill and in hospital we are signed off work and work do not hassle us daily for updates.

School is very different

"the pupils at school have to be there, and don't have a choice.
This is never replicated anywhere else in life (except perhaps prison"

Well, I'm not really choosing to go to work!

Youthful but in some ways more mature. They usually are able to converse with all ages from younger children to elderly people.in their community. Often they have skills for superior to their in school peers.

Children who can forage, prepare their own meals, fix the car, repair items around the house. Help their elderly neighbours etc etc.

So in some respects they are more mature but they also are more likely to play with items or do activities school children the same age no longer would. Not because these children don't want to do but because they would be teased if their peers in school found out

I'm not completely against home education, but I do see exactly what you are talking about. The rise in the number of parents "unschooling" their children, which basically translates to letting the kids choose what and when they learn. My friend does this and says they don't do maths or English as the kids never ask to do it... No neither would mine, which is why school is so important, as learning basic Mathematics and English is really important! They do alot of hands on activites and days out, which is obviously lovely and sounds so much fun, but I do wonder when or if they ever sit down and learn stuff the stuff that needs learning. My eldest is Yr 5 and the maths is getting harder and harder, I struggle helping her with some of the homework, and I'm not stupid. Having said that, I've always said, and will stand by the fact if either of my children at any point were subjected to bullying, I would remove them in a heartbeat. I cannot bear the thought of them being teased or upset by their peers, and I'm dreading secondary school already. So, I will always keep an open mind with home education, and I am in awe of those who do it well, and end up with well rounded, well educated, well socialised, happy children. It must be extremely hard to do it, and do it right.

You've taught at nicer schools than I have, then 😂

So the only difference between following an instruction at school and following an instruction literally anywhere else in life (e.g. at home or extra curricular activities) is that the pupils at school have to be there, and don't have a choice.

This is never replicated anywhere else in life (except perhaps prison, which DD will do her very best to avoid, I'm sure), so I don't think she's going to face any obstacles in life based on your perception of her ability to follow instructions (which I'm still not sure how you've formed).

Do you work in a school? Because I do, and no one is keeping their mouths shut when they’re supposed to. They do eventually, at least for a while, and they’re decent kids really, but nope.

Some of the stuff DD tells me goes on in some of her classes , would make your toes curl.

You’re forgetting about all the parents that have been forced to “E”HE . I put electively in inverted commas , because it’s anything but.

Or the parents who pay for tutors.

Or the parents who do it because their kid has some form of performing career (sports or artistic) and that’s the best way to fit schooling around it.

I disagree. I think the majority of school educated children can keep their mouth shut and follow an instruction even if they don't desperately want to. No child loves every lesson and wants to do every activity but most aren't "kicking off" daily. Its very different to following instructions at home or at an extra curricular activity that they presumably choose to attend.

From what I've seen a lot of it boils down to a lack of humility and self awareness. I'm degree educated and I'd never even consider I could teach my children to a high level at secondary school age. Honestly, I amazed at what teachers can show them and teach them in their specalist subjects. I might be able to scrape by in some subjects but I'd be doing them a disservice both from an educational perspective and a social one. The other thing I've noticed is parents putting their own insecurities onto their kids by wrapping them up in cotton wool and not letting them face the world we live in. We all want to protect our kids but they've got to build the skills to be able to deal with people from all different backgrounds etc. Leave it to the experts in their fields I say. The teachers do an amazing job and I'm so grateful I dont have too.

I'm laughing just imagining DD attempting to negotiate safety with her coach 😂 the first thing she learned when she started was that if the coach is giving an instruction when she's in the wall room, she listens and obeys immediately. She can ask questions about it later (what would have happened if I hadn't/had done that, was I doing something wrong, does that happen a lot etc) but she listens and obeys first and foremost.

Also, you're kidding yourself if you think school educated children are great at gritting their teeth and getting on with things. From experience, they're either pretty keen to do the things teachers ask of them because they understand the importance of it or genuinely enjoy it (so no different to my DD), or they kick off massively and whine and tantrum and get into trouble and distract others.

Again, comprehension skills, inference in particular. No climbing coach will “negotiate “ with a kid considering the risks involved. She’d be out the door so fast her head would spin . That’s just one example.

How does it sound like negotiation? Please, be specific 🙂