Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I’m a GP

171 replies

WutheringBites · 25/09/2025 20:58

here’s the thing; I can’t get a job. And lots of us who completed training in the past two years can’t either. It’s a national problem (well, at least across England) and there’s thousands of us in the same boat.
I didn’t expect to earn millions as a doctor, but I did think there would always be work for a nice GP. AIBU?

OP posts:
CoreyTaylorsbiggestfan · 26/09/2025 07:12

YellowisMellow · 25/09/2025 21:31

I'm a practice nurse.
This week I had a 1-1 meeting with a woman commisioned by the ICB to visit surgeries and talk to staff about the vision that the NHS has for GP surgeries.
She categorically stated to me that NHS England is looking at how to reduce GPs and GP hours. And she's been commissioned to work out how to do it (as part of a wider team, obviously).
I had to ask her to repeat what she'd just said to me. I thought I must have misheard.
The focus, she tells me, is going to be on paramedic practitioners, advanced nurse practitioners, and upskilling practice nurses.
That's where the money is going to be spent now, she said.
I already do all the chronic disease reviews at my surgery; asthma, COPD, diabetes, CHD, hypertension, etc. I've been asked by the surgery for a while to do my prescribing training. I do want to do it but I have a young family so the level of study required on top of my working hours puts me off. But I'm the only practice nurse who isnt a prescriber now as all the other nurses have done it, and I'm being told that ultimately I have now got to do it in order to retain my position.
A team of paramedic practitioners and advanced nurse practitioners at my surgery do all the 'on the day' urgent care. They have all qualified in prescribing courses.
We have mental health co-ordinators drafted in to us from the icb to manage all the patients with mental health difficulties.
There's not a lot left for the GPs to actually do.
And we're all much, much cheaper of course.
Which is obviously why NHS England has this plan to reduce GP employment - and use us instead.

Edited

As a nurse who has advanced clinical skills and prescribing qualification it concerns me you have said that there is not much for GPs to do.
I strongly disagree, minor injury and illness etc yes I can assess, diagnose and treat within my nursing remit. There’s a hell of a lot us nurses cannot do, we haven’t have the extensive training GP (all doctors have). Yes I have been qualified for 15 years…..yes I’ve been a NP for 8 years but at the end of the day we need doctors!!
I hope that our ICB doesn’t have the same vision as yours.

Evaka · 26/09/2025 07:10

WutheringBites · 26/09/2025 00:04

No. Well. Not yet. I’m nhs to my bones and find it hard to imagine not working within a system that’s free at the point of access to those who need it.

but. I need to be able to pay the bills

Show quote history

Please do go into private care. It's not elite, it's how countless people are now getting the medical care they need because NHS care isn't accessible. Don't let your skills and knowledge rot out of principle.

YellowisMellow · 26/09/2025 07:08

BerryTwister · 26/09/2025 00:19

@zazazooms no, GPs don’t get anything like that much per hour.

Show quote history

Yes they do.
GPs I work with, whom I am friends with outside of work, tell me they are paid £75 per hour.

MargaretThursday · 26/09/2025 07:02

WatchingTheDetective · 26/09/2025 06:54

Are you suggesting she leaves her family?

Show quote history

Family goes with you on the Mercy ships anyway.

YellowisMellow · 26/09/2025 07:01

TeddySchnauzer · 26/09/2025 02:41

I don’t get it… I cannot get seen by my GP for love nor money! The surgery have cited GP shortages as the reason for appointment availability issues…….?

Yes. There are GP shortages.
But the public are misunderstanding this.
The GP shortages are not because there are loads of vacancies and job adverts yet no GPs are applying.
The shortages are because there are a lack of vacancies, a lack of job adverts, due to lack of funding for GP salaries being given to surgeries from the NHS.
The GPs are out there, wanting to work, and the surgeries need and want more GPs, and patient demand certainly needs them. But surgeries are not being given the money by the NHS to be able to employ more GPs. They are being told to employ more nurses and paramedics instead. Purely because they are much cheaper.
That's why there's a GP shortage.
The NHS aren't giving surgeries the money to employ enough of them.
This is a fact, not my opinion. I've worked in primary care for 20 years and I know the ins and outs of it.

SunnySideDeepDown · 26/09/2025 06:59

OP - would you consider an ARRS GP role within a PCN? If you qualified in the last two years you’d be eligible.

SunnySideDeepDown · 26/09/2025 06:58

RosesAndHellebores · 25/09/2025 21:32

In the last few weeks I have found out why.
There is a network of Primary Care Networks across the country, 170 in fact. They each have a budget of about £10m.

Ours has a large executive team, probably costs about £1m. They evidently organise out of hours hubs, have some paramedics instead of probably district nurses, do a lot of social prescribing, are an interface with pharmacies. They also seem to have a lot of committees, reports and data shit.

They contacted me to invite me to a virtual network for peer support because I might find socialising challenging and implied I used my GP too much. Evidently their IT people ran a report with poor parameters and their comms people wrote a patronising email that assumed the patients were an ill educated blob. They have apologised.

However, this sort of nonsense is likely replicated across the country and extrapolates to a layer of crapocracy that costs £1.7 million. Apparently Wes supports it.

We need doctors on the front line, doctoring and far less of the crapocracy.

Shame we only hear the doctors complain about lack of resources rather than waste of resources.

Edited

Primary Care Networks can employ newly qualified GPs now within their funding budgets, so OP could go for an ARRS GP role if they wanted to, there are lots of PCNs recruiting now.

WatchingTheDetective · 26/09/2025 06:54

WinnerSpinner · 25/09/2025 22:00

Can you work away somewhere else in the UK & travel home at weekends ?
Car, train, fly

Work PT ?

What about volunteer with the Mercy boat or other medical teams abroad ?

Are you suggesting she leaves her family?

TeddySchnauzer · 26/09/2025 02:41

I don’t get it… I cannot get seen by my GP for love nor money! The surgery have cited GP shortages as the reason for appointment availability issues…….?

tellmesomethingtrue · 26/09/2025 01:45

Why can’t you get a job?

YourRedLurker · 26/09/2025 00:53

WutheringBites · 26/09/2025 00:17

No. And I’m being very proactive. There’s just no enthusiasm for having locums atm

Show quote history

The thing that’s really mad is that there probably would be work if you could apply for an ACP role… Seem to be lots about but I’m aware Drs aren’t allowed to apply - (not suggesting this is in anyway a sensible option clearly a GP should be employed as a GP!).

YourRedLurker · 26/09/2025 00:50

Wishiwasatailor · 26/09/2025 00:26

@Athreedoorwardrobe there are very few nurses/AHPs that go down the physician associate route rather than do an advanced practice masters so the majority are science grads with minimal patient/health experience doing a 2 year course to be able to see patients with undifferentiated ailments.

Absolutely. A choice between being pain a full time wage whilst you under take a funded masters programme part time topping you up to an ACP who can prescribe and order imaging. Or take 2 years unpaid to fund yourself on a PA programme for 2 years and at the end of it not be able to write your own prescriptions (or though this likely will change at some point)…. Nope it just doesn’t make sense.

You just can’t undertake a 2yr programme after completing a chemistry degree and then be expected to safely manage undifferentiated patients in A&E or GP.

Wishiwasatailor · 26/09/2025 00:26

@Athreedoorwardrobe there are very few nurses/AHPs that go down the physician associate route rather than do an advanced practice masters so the majority are science grads with minimal patient/health experience doing a 2 year course to be able to see patients with undifferentiated ailments.

RosesAndHellebores · 26/09/2025 00:26

padso · 25/09/2025 21:34

They contacted me to invite me to a virtual network for peer support because I might find socialising challenging and implied I used my GP too much.

Wow, do you actually go a lot?

No. Twice in three years and one of those times was at the request of the GP!

BerryTwister · 26/09/2025 00:19

zazazooms · 25/09/2025 23:11

Around £50 per hour which is about double aparamedic (understandably so for the training, but not necessarily for patient outcomes or experience for many conditions or end of life stuff)

Edited
Show quote history

@zazazooms no, GPs don’t get anything like that much per hour.

Original poster
WutheringBites · 26/09/2025 00:17

Praying4Peace · 25/09/2025 23:13

Is there any locum work as an interim solution?

Show quote history

No. And I’m being very proactive. There’s just no enthusiasm for having locums atm

OP posts:
Original poster
WutheringBites · 26/09/2025 00:12

WinnerSpinner · 25/09/2025 22:00

Can you work away somewhere else in the UK & travel home at weekends ?
Car, train, fly

Work PT ?

What about volunteer with the Mercy boat or other medical teams abroad ?

I’m a sandwich generation - children with SEND - older relatives to care for, so I’m stuck.

but even if I wasn’t, how on earth have we got to this? A consultant equivalent expert generalist doctor, trained in the NHS that can’t get a job to look after people when there’s a shortage of doctors?!? It’s bizarre

OP posts:
Original poster
WutheringBites · 26/09/2025 00:06

RoverReturn · 25/09/2025 21:43

Sorry to hear this.

Is there no locumming jobs ? Not that I know that much about the system but I assumed that locums were always in demand to fill gaps .

Nope. No money in the system and the contract changes just seem to mean that the gaps don’t need to be filled as much (which is really really weird)
so very very few locums

OP posts:
Original poster
WutheringBites · 26/09/2025 00:04

OpheliaNightingale · 25/09/2025 21:46

@WutheringBites have you tried registering with private health care providers? My health care plan gives me access to GP appointments whenever I need one. I’m also a therapist registered with BUPA, as apart from self employment and EAP work, counselling jobs are few and far between.

No. Well. Not yet. I’m nhs to my bones and find it hard to imagine not working within a system that’s free at the point of access to those who need it.

but. I need to be able to pay the bills

OP posts:
Maria98 · 26/09/2025 00:00

Athreedoorwardrobe · 25/09/2025 23:51

Those masters degrees aren't 'Micky Mouse' degrees. My friend has one and has 30 years nursing experience in the field. Plus the patients he prescribes to he actually sees day to day, whereas the psychiatrists might only see that patient once for 5 minutes. I'd honestly prefer to see him if I was ill, as he has more hands on experience and more actual knowledge of the patients.

Show quote history

The problem with AHPs/PAs taking over from doctors is that you need to have a proper knowledge of anatomy and physiology in order to be able to work out what's going with patients and make an accurate diagnosis, and they just dont get that from their training.

Athreedoorwardrobe · 25/09/2025 23:51

Ovasaurus · 25/09/2025 21:17

I'm so sorry you have trained for so long and hard to be unemployed at CCT.
Meanwhile the government is funding endless Physician Assistants with Micky Mouse masters degrees and expecting the general public to be grateful. That of course is dependent on us actually managing to secure an appointment with one.
It is a scandal in the making. I don't blame our doctors for fleeing to countries who actually treat them well.

Those masters degrees aren't 'Micky Mouse' degrees. My friend has one and has 30 years nursing experience in the field. Plus the patients he prescribes to he actually sees day to day, whereas the psychiatrists might only see that patient once for 5 minutes. I'd honestly prefer to see him if I was ill, as he has more hands on experience and more actual knowledge of the patients.

YourRedLurker · 25/09/2025 23:50

zazazooms · 25/09/2025 23:11

Around £50 per hour which is about double aparamedic (understandably so for the training, but not necessarily for patient outcomes or experience for many conditions or end of life stuff)

Edited
Show quote history

It’s not quite double, I’m a Paramedic seconded into GP and we get £35 an hour, plus time and half for any end of shift work - i.e. all the referrals and debriefing that occurs at the end of the shift.

Considering I only have to see about 23 patients through the day and don’t need to do all the pathlinks/results stuff, then if you factor in all the unnecessary tests/admissions I’m more likely to order - I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re more expensive than the GP. That’s before you consider that my clinical knowledge barely compares to that of the GP. Roughly speaking I would suggest I’m to the GP what the fist aider is to me.

Maria98 · 25/09/2025 23:44

WutheringBites · 25/09/2025 20:58

here’s the thing; I can’t get a job. And lots of us who completed training in the past two years can’t either. It’s a national problem (well, at least across England) and there’s thousands of us in the same boat.
I didn’t expect to earn millions as a doctor, but I did think there would always be work for a nice GP. AIBU?

Of course you're not being unreasonable. The NHS is deliberately replacing drs with none drs for their own dubious reasons. I know a few drs who have had to move to Australia or New Zealand in order to get a job, obviously that isn't possible for everyone as some have family commitments here but they are a lot happier now. It sounds like the healthcare systems over there are not (yet?) as broken as ours.

MargaretThursday · 25/09/2025 23:32

Well I suspected my gp practice have all been replaced by AI which is programmed to send a random text instead of interacting.
the choice is

  1. Ask the pharmacy
  2. No appointments until 2037
  3. Try canistan cream
  4. Use the online app which has been down for the last 6 weeks
  5. Book with the nurse who also has no appointments
  6. We have sent your urgent prescription to the pharmacy. It will be ready for you to pick up in 28 days if you're lucky, but we have sent it via Mars.
  7. Really? You have chest pain and 111 told you to get an urgent appointment? We haven't any. Try tomorrow when we also won't have any.
  8. I'm scared of children/blood/feet so don't ask me
  9. Great news! You have an appointment by phone. We will phone you.... On no, sorry it's been cancelled.
10. Stop bothering us. Anyone would think you expect us to do something about illness or something.

The good news is when you get a job you can sit on a beach in the South of France and send these out too, and no one will be able to tell.

BeardofHagrid · 25/09/2025 23:30

You can’t past the receptionist either?