To think it's a bit harsh to say people who've never worked shouldn't get benefits?

And they can fuck right off too.

I'll send him round their houses and they can tell him he's a sponger who isn't entitled to government care and support.

Yes it does and it is rigorous. My son had to have full assessments and evidence from his GP and other medical professionals

For his pip he had to go to an assessment centre. We had to take him and we put it is writing that they must not at any point let him get between them and a door, that they should understand that asking him question after question is likely to trigger an aggressive response from him and if at any point we told them to leave the room they must do it immediately.

He still had the assessment, and we said if he does anything to you, we will not be held responsible because we clearly warned you.

I honestly don't know how all these supposed fakers that everyone who is anti benefits knows do it because me and everyone I know has had to fight every step of the way for everything. From what used to be called a Statement but is now an ehcp, to getting direct payments, to getting pip and uc.

Its fight fight fight. Over 20 years of fighting for scraps of support and money.

Then I read how someone's next door neighbour tells everyone down the pub how they lied on a form 10 years ago and have been raking it in ever since and I can't help but think that's bollocks.

Apparently you should be supporting him yourself forever and not relying on tax payers according to some of the good people on this thread.

Depends on the person.

My younger son is 25 and has never worked. He's not capable and needs 24/7 supervision. When I can no longer care for him he will need to be placed into a secure unit for adults with complex needs and aggressive behaviours.

He gets uc and enhanced rate pip.

Anyone who tries to tell me he's not entitled because he's never had a job can fuck right off.

But doesn't this assessment by a professional already exist? An even if you make the assessment even more stringent, how do you make employers offer opportunities to disabled people? We all know there are laws against discrimination, but yet plenty of people will be able to tell you their own stories be it age/sex/maternity/race/disability discrimination.

There are. People are pushed hard into work with sanctions in the form of benefit loss if they don't comply with directives aimed at getting a job. If your Hs friend has not had this, it will be because she is exempt for some reason. From what you've said, likely on health grounds or as a carer for her DD. Alternatively its possible she claims nothing and lives off support from DDs father, her family, an inheritance or similar. Has she confided her full financial and medical details to her friend your H, and he passed them on to you?

I agree with you because nothing in this world is ever black and white.
A 16 year old is not mature, not thinking of the future so why punish an innocent baby born to a venerable young lady?
Yes ideally benefits shouldn't be paid forever to someone who's never worked but in the real world there are always exceptions.

Yeah, I agree with others that really is not a good example to use and base your views on OP.

There are parents who are unable to work due to illness / disability / accident etc.

There are parents who fall on hard times, due to job loss / bereavement / divorce.

There are parents who have children and go back to work in some capacity, using either family help or paid childcare to look after their babies, and after school clubs / wraparound care when they are older and at school.

BUT

Then you have the parents who actively choose not to work, but decide to have children. I have seen this so many times; as soon as one baby is toddling and the parents can get free childcare, they have another one, then another. Who is paying for this? The people who get off their arse, go to work day in, day out and pay their taxes. My DH is past retirement age, and is still working full time and is still paying his taxes.

Why should the taxpayer keep funding their life choices and decision not to work at all? It's no wonder the hardworking people in this country are getting so p**d off! 😡

If 15 YO gets pregnant, who should be 'punished' for this? The girl? The father? Her parents (as she is a child)? The boy's parents? I mean, it's already the girl isn't it, what more do you want from her?

Not much changes when it comes to trampling over girls and women for their choices or circumstances of fate.

I genuinely wonder why some people stay on benefits though. I've given this example before, but one of my DH's friends is a single mum who's been on benefits for 17 years. Literally the whole time her only daughter has been a child, she's not worked. 😳

I have to say, I know her daughter isn't well now as I think she's got ME or possibly long Covid, but the mother is just lazy as much as I can tell. Apart from a back problem, she's been healthy and not had any other physical or mental health problems, so I can't understand why she's not worked. And once her DD turns 18 in January, she will lose the child benefits.

I know it's not an example representing everyone, but it bloody annoys me how she's been able to claim long term benefits. Surely there must be some sanctions in place to ensure she at least tries to find work after a certain period of time? 🤔😳

Agreed. We need a poll on this?

Personally I think there should be an 'incentive' to avoid creating pregnancy. Perhaps by making it a criminal offence for a man to fail to prevent a pregnancy if is unable or unwilling to support a child. A few prosecutions in, we might find men would be rushing for that free contraception and refusing to have sex unless it was used. Wouldn't that be great?

You would wear one because everyone knows that no single form of contraception is 100% reliable. And using a condom protects both partners from the risk of a number of sexually transmitted infections.

Both are unethical, shaming tactics. 🙄

The problem is cost of living. Work needs to genuinely pay. Benefits should only provide a baseline existence. I don’t want to live in a society where we don’t take care of our genuinely vulnerable but equally as a parent of ND kids I think the pendulum has swung to far. We should be encouraging everyone to support themselves as best they can, and frankly we need to raise the bar significantly. The state should be supporting the majority to provide for themselves not encouraging them to stay at home dependent.

In the old days unemployment benefit was a proportion of your previous salary which made sense.

I think benefits should have a low baseline universal amount and the rest should be a proportion based on the tax you've paid over the previous ten years so it's capped for moderate and high earners.

But I also think there should be some form of government work that's available to those who want to work but can't. Like Remploy used to or those kind of jobs such as litter picking (better examples are available).

@Velvian AMEN 🙏🙏🙏🙏

Then that should be quite the incentive to avoid getting pregnant. Contraception is free in this country.
Paying for people to make bad life choices is completely irrational.

I have a massive problem with Mumsnet HQ deleting my post where I explain that I will be looking after my adult child financially and emotionally until the day I die.

It's completely mealy mouthed to leave standing posts that are deeply deeply offensive to parents of disabled adults telling us that we should be expected to look after our children and not rely on tax payer's money to fund them, and then delete the response, presumably because it says, literally, "oh eff off".

I completely stand by that 'eff off'. Personal attacks come in many guides and I happen to feel personally attacked by the ignorance of avaricious people who clearly have no idea what it's like to have adult children with significant disabilities.

@betsip You really need to start your own thread - your post is getting lost because this thread is on another topic.

A teenage mum going into their first job has far more barriers to work than a mum returning from Maternity Leave. They are not idle, they are working, doing a job that another person would have to be paid to do in their absence, they are just earning a wage through paid employment.

There are so many types of unpaid work that are paid when outsourced to someone else. Adults should be fed and housed as well as children imo.

There are no jobs where I live at the moment. What happens when your high street closes down mostly, local authorities (the biggest employer) have cut their staff to the ground bone etc.
There’s care work, but not everyone is suitable for that. Where are all these inexperienced adults meant to work?
We talk about AI but unskilled jobs have been cut down for decades. DHs work used to have a tea lady! The canteen staff have gone. The staff have shrunk so the support roles have reduced, the cleaners have gone, the full time supplies man has gone.

We’ve cut the jobs that lots of people used to do, jobs that people used to be able to live off.
Theres no jobs for teenagers, Saturday jobs are no more as they want staff available all the time. So they’re not getting experience or getting used to working.
If you want people to work you need to create jobs.

This specific example hinges on the child's wellbeing, it's not about the adult. Paying benefits to young mums who have never worked is about preventing the child from living in destitution. The alternative is that we let the children suffer for their parents decisions (which could be them being abandoned by their partner so out of their hands). To be honest I've seen young mums living on benefits and it's not a life of luxury anyway.

I say this as an older single mum who's quite well off, has never had benefits and pays an awful lot of taxes while raising my child alone. I'd rather my taxes went towards support less well off families to ensure children aren't starving, homeless or abandoned than many other feckless projects the government wastes money on.

There will always be people that fall outside of 'the rules'. There will also always be a very small minority (which some imply are far more numerous) that are lazy, workshy layabouts. What do we do with them? Send them to the wilderness to die? 😅