To think that you can absolutely buy consent

You can’t buy consent.

So everyone's consent to work at their job is not genuine, because money is involved, and they're all actually slaves?

I think there's a difference between the legal and moral concepts of consent. Legally, sure, you can buy consent that's good enough to satisfy s.1 of the SOA03 (although you will be committing other offences). Does it follow that it's good enough to satisfy the moral duties we owe to one another, in a world where very substantial numbers of sex workers are not able to make a fully free choice? Absolutely not.

Consent is corrupted by money in my opinion. My thought is that it isn't just about the individual consenting anyway. If you allow a society where buying women's body's is legal, you send a message that it's okay for women to be dehumanized and reduce to a commodity, which affects all women. This isn't okay to do to anyone whether they "consent" to it or not. There are many things that people can "consent" to, doesn't mean it's right to inflict it on them.

When you are buying sexual favours you can never know for sure that you have consent. What you are paying for the privilege of not having to ensure consent is freely given. It can't be freely given if you are paying for it.

I truly doubt there would be only 20 sex workers left in the entire world if you deducted those forced into it. That really is utterly puerile and you know it. In fact your outrage on the subject is so visceral I suggest you calm down for the sake of your blood pressure.

💯

It isn't that NOBODY ever was happy being a sex worker. It's that you can't tell.

A guy my friend dated had used a sex worker a few times and showed my friend the website and everything to "prove" he wasn't a bad guy yada yada. "She makes £7k a week, she owns several properties, not vulnerable see? See?". I did have to say "well she wasn't going to put it out there that (for example) she was having to service ten guys a day to pay off someone who is intimidating her and she's had her kids removed from her care etc. Is that going to sell? Not very sexy is it?

The notion of seeing a "high class" sex worker who definitely isn't vulnerable makes them feel better about themselves. So I imagine a lot of sex workers say they're NOT I REPEAT NOT vulnerable, even if they are.

But I do believe some people are fine with doing sex work. It just isn't easy to identify which ones. Therefore, best bet is not to use them. And again, that really shouldn't be a chore.

The thing is, men who pay for these services have no idea about the life story/mental health of the person giving the lap dance or sex or whatever. It's just something they pay for from a stranger. So there's always a chance they are getting that service from a very vulnerable person even if not all are vulnerable. It's not a risk I would take in good conscience.

Many have also said that they were fine with it at the time and later in life they saw the whole thing very differently. The power dynamic and objectification can seem fine when you are in your teens and 20’s when you have been totally exposed to your self worth being around men’s ‘adoration’. However, I have read countless reports where women deeply regret their choices later in life.

Lastly, even if it is free consent, that consent, to objectify yourself, always affects other women as a sex class. The more women that agree to men penetrating them for cash or watching them undress around a pole the more it normalises the idea women are there for men’s enjoyment.

I really wish women who have free choice would consider this point.

She said not all; you'd be one of the 20 that did it willingly with informed choice.
*and earning a lot more because the women who didn't want to suck off unclean obese men, for example, wouldn't have to.

Lots are, lots aren't. I worked with many women who were from middle class backgrounds. None of them were addicts and none of them were poverty stricken. They'd made a calculated decision to earn far better money than they could elsewhere in such a relatively short space of time. I realise this offends women like you who will never reconcile that decision and I truly understand that. But please don't try to tell a former sex worker that we are all coerced addicts or poor and uneducated wrecks because, whilst it is sadly true for many, it is not true for all.

I was a stripper for years. Would I have done it for free? No. Did I happily do it for money, yes.

Do people take ketamine because they think it’s a good idea?

Many people self harm, it comes in many forms

The problem is that we live in a world where generally men hold all the power.
From literal space in the playground, to socially conditioning women and girls to look a certain way for men. I think the average woman spend 10 times the amount of money on ‘self care’ than their male counterparts. Then there’s the wage disparity and the board room assumptions where senior females are often asked to get the tea or take minutes by clients despite their senior position.

So when men choose to pay to ejaculate in a woman’s body it is all about objectification and it’s de-humanising. No woman would freely choose to do that knowingly. They often realise much later in life because the world we live in makes them think it’s a choice. That’s the women who claim they are there of their own free will, obviously many are not there through choice either.

I agree that in theory you may be able to buy consent from some people.

It is just difficult to know which sex workers fits into that category and which doesn't. "Because she said she does" doesn't really cut it.

Best just you know not to use sex workers? I don't know why that's meant to be difficult or some sort of alien concept tbh

I had a friend, years ago, who was very cheerful about being a lap dancer. She was a good looking woman and liked the money she earned. So, yes, she consented, and didn’t care what other people thought.

Because every study shows having sex for money even if it’s ‘free choice’ isn’t really choice. There is a fundamental difference between doing other things for money and having a man buy your consent to use your body.
If you read some of the research it really messes up the mental well being of women even if they ‘freely’ choose.

Did anyone see that Netflix show about the dissapearance of the American teen from the luxury cruise liner? There was a US Army (?) officer on that who basically said he saw her being held in a brothel. She tried to confide in him that she was a US citizen kept there against her will. He did...nothing. Why, the camera crew asked him "Welll you see so many girls all around the world in these places and they all have some sob story or another..."
It's everywhere. Men don't want to admit they participate, but they do.

This 👆

It's very disingenuous to pretend sex work is no different than cutting hair or flipping burgers.

Of course it is different ffs.

There is no safe way to do sex work- intimate contact with unvetted strangers, bodily fluids, bodily penetration, risk of pregnancy or disease, risk of violence and psychological damage, no PPE, inextricably linked to organised crime and substance abuse.

How can anyone pretend that is no different from cutting a fringe.

How many are;

Happy
Emotionally healthy
No abuse in childhood (sexual or other)
No addiction
No poverty
No coercive control in any relationships
Other choices easily available

Because in my experience, if you remove all the trauma and poverty, you'd have about 20 sex workers in the world and a BJ would cost a million pounds.

Who benefits when people parrot the ‘sex work is work’ dogma? In whose interests is it to insist that for many women, despite the very obvious risk factors involved, it’s a legitimate career choice they’re comfortable with and happy to do in perpetuity?

Who benefits? Very obviously men.

I've worked with, known and been friends with multiple sex workers in two countries and over many years. It's a myth.

And the reason you're confused is because you don't understand that consent needs to be full and enthusiastic. If you don't know that, you shouldn't be having sex.

The woman in question would not perform sex acts with the man if she was not being paid. Therefore, the payment is coercion. Coerced sex is rape.

I think we need to separate emotional consent from contractual consent. Consent as defined in the OED is "giving permission for something to happen or entering an agreement for something to happen." Therefore if a woman chooses freely to sell sex to a man, she is indeed consenting. I've worked in the sex industry and not all sex workers are pimped out drug addicts.