To reject trainee surgeon?

I understand where you are coming from as well op but what I would say is I had said the same on a form before my c section and then it turned out there was a trainee there anyway - I went with it because I didn't want to single her out and tbh my mind was elsewhere in the moment.

Out of everyone in the room she was the most compassionate and attentive and she did an excellent job.

So I basically don't think there is a right or wrong answer - you need to weight it up overall but every single surgeon will have needed to do this at some point in their career and as others have said they will only be doing it if they are deemed ready to do it and it will be weighed up in the context of any risks. If you're worried about it you could request more information to discuss it so you can ask questions. Or if it doesn't feel right for you then just say no.

She literally hasn't done any of that. She's asking on Mumsnet. Not everyone understands the ins and outs of the medical field, and it's really unhelpful to turn on them when they ask a few basic questions to try to gain that understanding.

Students actually can be better imo. It was a student that went over the lead consultants head with my brother and saved his life, it was a newly qualified doc with me that looked beyond the year of misdiagnosing my ovarian cancer as IBS by her colleague that saved mine. I think the newly qualified and still learning docs can be sometimes the best, not at all complacent!

Understand your worries but I think rest easy and wish your son a successful op and a super-speedy recovery when you are ready.

Your less likely to be able to cover up something going wrong if you've got a registrar involved in the operation, who knows how the procedure should be done, with up to date knowledge, and can ask questions. As well as someone to problem solve with if its more complex.

With a registrar (obviously with enough experience), you've also got someone doing the surgery who has to show they are good enough, has to show precision and control, has to show they know what they are doing, have correct technique etc. Compared to a consultant alone who no one is keeping in check.

Can you imagine trying to do your job, treating patients, when you have an unqualified person (who isn't even the patient) wandering around asking questions, doubting your experience and refusing to accept any reassurance. Yes, when you have dozens of others under your care too - as you don't exist in that hospital just for one person (who again, isn't even the patient).

Have you called a private hospital and asked about their prices?

I’ve said YANBU because I think your feelings are valid. What I would say is, the supervising consultant may not even be in the room if another (qualified) consultant completed the surgery. It could be one of their team instead. So whilst I totally understand where you’re coming from, potentially your DC is in a better position having a senior consultant overseeing a procedure being completed by a student (more experience in the room in totality).
My main questions would be focused on understanding the definition of student - I.e what stage of training are they at? (1st yr med student vs almost qualified consultant). Please don’t jump me for using the wrong terms MN 😬

You work for the NHS OP?

OP, people are being rude to you because calling a 35 year old resident surgeon with many years of experience “a student” just because they don’t yet have a CCT is incredibly demeaning.

Just as if I came to your place of work and called you “some little secretary” and demanded to only deal with one of the partners, it would be very rude.

Call me what you want, but it will be me looking after you, keeping your ventilator ticking over, adjusting the rate so you don;t fight it and become tired, keep your infusions going, so you have a blood pressure so your brain is perfused, wipe your skin when you defacate yourself, fight tooth and nail for your dignity and for your plan to be maintained, comfort your relatives, hold your hand, respond to the changes the Dr hasn't noticed, but yes I am the arsehole!

A trainee will probably still be a highly experienced surgeon, just perhaps not yet completed all final exams. It’s not going to
be a medical student.

You can refuse to consent to them carrying
out the op but I am not sure it extends to a
right on insisting someone else does it.

You want to call the shots, you go
Private and pay.

What a spectacularly unhelpful thing to say to a concerned mother. Could you imagine not being at the hospital while your child was operated on? Some of the meanness on here is baffling.

Because it's Mumsnet and people love to stick the boot in.

I hope your son's op goes well, it really will be fine, they wouldn't let anyone operate on him who they weren't confident about.

Hi there
Just thought i would add my personal experience. I had eye surgery in april and i was seen by a very well experienced ophthalmologist and their protege(sorry for incorrect spelling and i dont mean anything negative by this word) and i have to say the experience i received was exceptional.
After the initial appointment i was seen by the protege several times due to the complexity of the case and all the different scans etc needed before surgery(and everything was checked with the boss while i was there) and was informed they would be doing the op under the strict guidance of the qualified ophthalmologist. I was told at every appointment etc that there was a very big risk of them having to remove the eye completely but they would do everything they could to save it and thankfully through the expertise and guidance from her boss the outcome was great. I was nervous obviously as the thought of waking up without my eye was scary... but i saw it as a positive that the protege was being watched like a hawk in surgery and the relationship they had between themselves was clear to see from the first appointment that i believed her boss would not have let them go ahead unless they had complete faith in their abilities.

I think it’s natural to be cautious when told a trainee surgeon may be performing the procedure, especially if it’s on your child. Some of the responses on here are very harsh and assume everyone would know the ins and outs of how these things work and what an actual ‘trainee surgeon’ is.

They are however right to say that it’s fairly standard practice and there will be a surgeon experienced in the procedure supervising. It sounds as if they either didn’t explain it very well or your DH was a bit blindsided by it all and didn’t take it in. I’m sure they will be happy to discuss it further and address any concerns you have.

There is no such thing as a student surgeon. Any surgeon up to the point of consultant is a "trainee", but that does not make them inexperienced or incapable or a student.

Qualified consultants don't come the nowhere, you have to do the operations many time whilst you are a registrar in order to become a consultant, up to the point of independence. No one will be allowed to operate if the consultant doesn't deem them experienced enough or good enough, and they will be supervised closely depending on their level of expertise. The consultant will likely have worked with the registrar many times and will know their experience.

Most operations are completed by a combination of consultants and registrars. Your son is entirely safe and a 'trainee' being involved in his operation is normal, and does not mean he is getting worse care.

Goodness, he’s a “full blown mature adult” is he?

Who isn’t clear on what the consultant said regarding who will be performing critical eye surgery on his young son.

I know this is in no way comparable to serious eye surgery but I have a massive phobia of needles and have had to have my blood taken quite a few times over the last few months. It’s always uncomfortable and I’m always bruised after. One day I had someone with a ‘trainee’ and asked if it was ok for them to draw my blood. I honestly wasn’t keen but am a people pleaser so of course said yes lol I also apparently have wonky veins so the trainee was nervous of this but was reassured by I’ll say her boss because I can’t think of what they’re called 😬 but anyway she took my blood and I didn’t even feel a scratch and didn’t bruise after. I couldn’t believe it and when I commented she said I think it’s because I’m so cautious of making a mistake.

my long winded (sorry) point is that just because they’ve got experience doesn’t mean they’re the best. Sometimes the newer ones take the most care.

I completely understand your anxiety though, this is your child and you have the enormous pressure of making a decision that can change their life so you have to do what you think is best and trust that. 🙂

Your op is disparaging, plus other comments. ‘I don’t want my son practiced on.’ Disparages the many years of expert practice this student has put in. And it is not at all unlikely to say the student might have more recent experience. I am a senior manager, my team own lots of reports, I know them inside and out, but I’d have to read the procedure to produce them myself these days. My junior team members, who are experienced professionals, could produce them in their sleep.
you’re being quite rude to a lot of people whi are trying to helpfully explain. A complex surgery doesn’t usually mean every part of it is complex, more likely a couple of components are tricky and critical, and many components are basic everyday surgery. The student will be doing those and only doing harder things if they are clearly on their game, and the senior will be watching every move and scrubbed up ready to jump in.

Op I would also feel anxious. It’s natural.

Was dh specifically asked to consent to a trainee doing the surgery or was it presented as normal procedure? If there was an opportunity to “not consent” then you can go back and say sorry you don’t want this surgery and will go back on wait list until it can be done by a consultant surgeon.

Less seriously - I consented to letting a trainee midwife stitch me up after I tore during labour with dc2. Omg it was the worst pain I ever experienced - felt like a hot knife slicing through my clit and she stitched me so tight I was in pain for many months! I really regretted allowing it. I would think twice before letting someone near my dc’s eyeballs with a surgical tool unless they’d done this procedure many times on adults.