To reject trainee surgeon?

Ophthalmologists are surgeons…they perform surgery on eyes. It won’t be a medical student doing it, it will be a fully qualified doctor who is likely almost a consultant ophthalmologist and will be performing the surgery solo very soon anyway and just needing/wanting extra supervised practice.

I can't believe some of the nasty comments here. I don't know the right thing to do OP but I hope your son's operation goes smoothly and they recover well. It must be really scary for you.

While I understand your concerns OP, and a lot of your concerns probably stem from the confusing language used for doctors, “trainee” and “junior” doctor for example are not necessarily very junior at all, it could very well be a very experienced doctor who is a year or two away from their consultant post and have spent 7+ years training in their field. Youre certainty within your rights to ask the level of experience and the level of supervision they will be given I don’t think you can insist the consultant does the surgery, Im assuming the hospital is a teaching hospital (as most are) and therefore this is just how it works.

For example in my work in intensive care, u can’t remember the last time I seen one of our consultants do a central line or chest drain for example, the “junior” (still very experienced) doctors do them with supervision. The first hint of concern they will step in or guide them.

@RunningThroughMyHead op.. I wasn't trying to be rude. Not sure if you read my other posts.. sorry if clueless was offensive.. I was trying to highlight that your questions are reasonable and most parents are not professionals in these things, which is the post I had replied to at some stage if you care to check my posts. Ive just had major surgery myself, 5 weeks post surgery, open surgery hysterectomy so I get the importance of asking questions.

The person answering the question said it was because she'd done 2 night shifts. She was rude and dismissive. There was absolutely no need for that. Manners cost nothing. Especially when the OP was clearly worried. It's just not necessary.

My grandad agreed to a student doing his eye surgery. The student surgeon forgot to put the eye protector across the lense of his eye. He was screaming in pain every time we administered the eye drops as we didn’t know the surgeon had missed something.

My dad had cataracts removed by a student and they left half the cataract in his eye. It got infected and he couldn’t see out of his eye properly again.

It’s not so much the disagreements and differing options, though, It’s more the way some (not all) players have been unnecessarily mean and seem to enjoy sticking the boot in.

Maybe you should get off the internet then, being rude to someone because your tired is not an excuse

This set up may well mean there is even more control, checking and follow-up than in a standard surgery.

Initially my gut reaction was no. Thinking about it more the supervision is a lot. As mentioned above ask the questions and see if you are happy then.

Even if it is the first time the surgeon has done this particular operation, @RunningThroughMyHead, they will already be experienced at all sorts of other ophthalmic surgeries. They will have worked up from simply observing operations to doing the easiest parts of simple procedures, under supervision, to doing all of a simple procedure under supervision. Then onto doing parts of more complex procedures, then doing them under supervision, and so on - basically building up their skills and knowledge.

If they are doing any part of this complex procedures, that means they have already learned a lot of less complex operations.

But, as I said earlier, I think the best advice is for you to contact the consultant’s secretary to ask for an email address, so you can send them the questions that are worrying you, and then you’ll have more information that might set up your mind at rest, or might make you decide to request that the consultant does your son’s surgery.

OP, I'm not sure why you're subjecting yourself to this thread. I would unquestionably push for the most experienced and skilled surgeon possible for my child and would not feel in any way guilty about doing so. Never mind what random strangers think (including me :) !

Why are so many on here making the assumption that all surgeons are great and as good as one another?

There are a few terrible surgeons, plenty of average ones and some outstanding ones, just like anything else.

If someone was cutting close to my child’s optic nerve, I would really want one of the latter group!

Of course, as people said, if the risks and complexity are relatively low and the resident has carried out the procedure several times successfully on a child, my feelings might be different.

But I would certainly be asking challenging questions before just agreeing.

"Junior" doctors can have 10+ years of experience

This 👆

Maybe people shouldn't ask questions in AIBU if people cannot accept that not everyone will agree with them and that their views/choice of words will be challenged

It was probably done under local as a GA was contra indicated - it could have taken the same amount of time even if the Consultant had done it - not everything can be seen on xray or scan and only when the operation has started can things be seen!

I think the word 'student' is the wrong choice here and makes them sound unqualified. They are qualified a qualified Doctor and likely have many years of experience under their belt. They're just not yet a consultant.
You can absolutely ask for reassurance around their level, experience in this procedure etc. But to insist on a consultant doing the procedure isn't really an option unless you choose to go privately, which is also your right to do. The consultant will be standing beside them overseeing every move. Majority of the time we have medical care in a public system we're treated by non consultant level doctors, but it doesn't mean they're unexperienced.

Students do not administer anaesthetics!
A resident Dr may have, one who is in training and is heavily supervised. They are competent.

It’s not wrong. Push for what you want, even if you have to wait a little longer for a fully qualified surgeon. It’s your son’s eyes. It would be an absolute no from me.

I would consent if it were a minor operation with limited risks, but not a major operation on my child.

And again, I maybe would if they had completed multiple similar operations on adults but this was their first paediatric case.

But first operation, high risk factors, no way. I would be looking for a very experienced consultant. As would most on here were push to come to shove and they really had to face their child potentially losing their sight.

What is the operation that it is so complex? It could be something that the suitably trained and experienced registrar carries out multiple times a day. They could have even carried out more of that procedure recently than the Consultant.

I think that's really mean. The language in health care is really confusing. 'Junior', 'Trainee', 'Student' all sound like they have very little experience. Would you trust your finances to a 'trainee advisor'? The fact that these surgeons are actually very experienced isn't obvious.

@RunningThroughMyHead I used to work in a specialist theatres recovery, so spent a lot of time in theatre, and I also did my return to practice placement in general theatres.

Firstly, know that the theatres team is a lot bigger than the surgical team. You'll have an anaesthetist and an OPD who are caring for your DS's physical state during the operation. Before surgery starts, the whole team will have a 'Time Out' where they agree who the patient is, what operation is planned, any complications to be aware of, and who everyone in the team is.

You'll have a scrub nurse who is handing the surgeon everything they need and supporting them as they operate. A circulating nurse makes sure that if anything extra is needed, or equipment is needed, it's available.

Surgical trainees start by observing surgery. Then they may be invited to do a layer of stitching, or a defined part of a surgery. They never just dive in and operate.

The fact that you've been told this surgery is tricky and delicate, means that the surgeon who operates will be experienced. They may be a 'trainee', but all that means is that they have a formal contract with the hospital to give them the training they need to qualify in their speciality. Specialist training contracts are competitive and they will have done huge amounts of study and gained lots of experience to even qualify as a candidate.

Ask the questions - the Consultant's secretary would be a good place to start. They'll be able to give you the information and reassurance you need.

If you want to look at it that way, ALL doctors are "students", as they have to undergo CPD which usually has some form of test or exam at the end to ensure it was done properly. Plus as new techniques and instruments are developed, they need to train on those so are still "trainees" using your thinking.

From an academic point of view, is someone who has their degree and masters and is working towards a doctorate at the same level of "student" as someone who is working towards their degree?

Exactly.

I'm sure the surgical registrar involved with my son learned a lot and will never make the same mistake again but it was almost at the expense of my child's life.

Let's just be glad that not everyone thinks like you or else in around 10/15 years there will be no medical professionals left to treat people.