To reject trainee surgeon?

Every single time someone who is in training has been part of my care (I have had a rare cancer twice) I have been asked if that’s ok. Sometimes I have said no, usually because I’m tired or in pain and I’m not in the mood to be a training study, and that has never been an issue. On other occasions where they’ve wanted to bring in entire teams of students or whatever to see a procedure I’ve said yes and happily shown my body to 20 odd people at a time.
patients are allowed a say in their treatment. To say they shouldn’t be able to say no is insane!

@crazeekat all patient care in the NHS is consultant led. It doesn't mean it's consultant delivered.

For example just now I'm typing on my laptop at home while my resident doctor and the surgical resident doctor are doing a case in the children's hospital. The surgical consultant is highly likely to also be at home but I've not spoken to them so I don't actually know where they are.

However, the cases we allow the resident doctors to carry out with distant supervision are carefully selected to be suitable and there are strict criteria (e.g the consultant will be on site for any child under 2, and my decision about exactly where to supervise from is based on my knowledge of the resident doctor I'm working with. Someone a week away from a consultant job I'll happily be in the coffee room, someone on day 1 in our hospital I'll be in the operating theatre)

Yes it will all paediatric surgeries involving GA’s are consultant led. Stop scaremongering

It would probably be a registrar - my DP is just finishing his medical studies and he observes surgery but doesn't participate in major surgeries. I think the difference would be between a registrar and a consultant, I think having a registrar is more common as they're usually the ones on duty, and consultants may be on call as and when needed.

I totally understand your stresses about this. When you're making decisions for your children of course you want the best care for them. I'd arrange an appointment with the Consultant & ask all the questions you need answers to. Ask about the experience the 'student' has, who will be supervising & their experience in this kind of op. I'm sure the Consultant will out your mind at ease once you fully understand who'll be doing the surgery & what they're capabilities, qualifications etc are. I hope all goes well with your little one.

How is it insulting to want to know details about surgery? Has DH insulted the first surgeon he saw by asking to change to another one because he didn’t do the type of surgery he’s hoping for? As far as I’m concerned he’s doing what’s right for him

Slightly devils advocate here.

This child has had a pre-op appointment. These cost the NHS money. The mother didn't go, no explanation about why that is has been offered.

She now isn't happy with the information provided by the child's father to her from that appointment.

Lots of suggestions that she needs a second appointment to discuss options. If this goes ahead it will have implications for other children and families on the waiting list as they will likely have to wait longer for their appointment because this child requires a second one so the mother can satisfy her need for information as the child's father failed to ask the questions she wanted answers to or retain the information he was given to a high enough standard.

Situations like this always make me uneasy as I'm not sure it's equitable to everyone.

Trying to be fully informed and asking questions isn't insulting. Not everyone knows how it works and if OP wasn't even at the appointment and only heard her DH say ''trainee surgeon'' then no wonder she is worried.

I asked a lot of questions after a surgical registrar almost killed my child due to making a huge mistake and they were nothing but kind and patient despite the fact it happened at the local hospital before he was transferred as he needed more specialist care (thanks to his huge mistake). I was always told who was doing the surgeries before signing the consent forms and every single one of my many, many questions were asked to the point that eventually they built my trust and I did begin to feel more comfortable with surgical registrars and even medical students.

I agree with you but that’s why I have private healthcare and that way I choose my surgeons myself and know exactly who is doing the operation. If you’re NHS you pretty much have to accept what you’re given

True, I’ve only handed them over to have a sharp blade in their brain so what the fuck would I know.
Loads of people responding will have had their children operated on without insulting the medical professionals scheduled to do it, it’s not a mindset everyone has.

I think people aren't always realising what it feels like to hand your young child over to someone knowing that they are going into a room where someone is going to take a very sharp blade to their eye. I've never worried about surgeries on me, I've been a wreck when it is one of my children and the eye ops are the worst.

The experienced surgeon would not allow anything to go wrong. They would intervene if needed. Your child would have 2 surgeons present. That’s a great deal Imo.

Poor you,

https://www.bmj.com/careers/article/the-complete-guide-to-becoming-an-ophthalmology-doctor

Hi op, there is a 7 year pathway to becoming an ophthalmic surgeon. So after qualifying in medicine thats typically 5 years (age 18/19 till 23/24) , plus 2 year foundation in medicine, they then start postgrad training in the specialty. In ophthalmology it is an additional 7 years. So you can ask what their qualification level is and compare with the link but the Trust wouldnt be taking any unnecessary risks as they would be liable.
Hope that helps explain it better.

https://www.bmj.com/careers/article/the-complete-guide-to-becoming-an-ophthalmology-doctor

Hi op, there is a 7 year pathway to becoming an ophthalmic surgeon. So after qualifying in medicine thats typically 5 years (age 18/19 till 23/24) , plus 2 year foundation in medicine, they then start postgrad training in the specialty. In ophthalmology it is an additional 7 years. So you can ask what their qualification level is and compare with the link but the Trust wouldnt be taking any unnecessary risks as they would be liable.
Hope that helps explain it better.

That could be the case, yes.
Id personally want to receive the information first hand, not from dh or a letter- id want the opportunity to ask questions etc myself.
I think op should do that.

The OP wasn’t saying that because she pays taxes to the NHS she is entitled to a full choice. She was specifically addressing the poster who said she should be grateful for the NHS because it is free. It is not free.

The NHS is far from perfect and we shouldn’t simply be grateful for it because it is a universal service. There is a lot of room for improvement. Whether that should include full choice for patients, I don’t know and I can see there are problems/drawbacks, but there is nothing wrong with trying to learn how the system works, why it works that way and questioning whether it could be done differently.

Are the husband hasn’t taken in the information? It may have been provide but he’s not been paying attention?

You are getting someone experienced - it’s not like you’re getting the work experience kid!

Well she’ll need to learn to deal with all sorts - rude ones, entitled ones, racist ones, smelly ones….. She won’t be successful if she only knows how to treat nice people. Don’t why you’re cross about this, it can’t come as a surprise?

Most jobs with any sort of customer-facing role have to deal with the full range of people.

PS she’ll also have to work alongside arrogant, entitled consultants too - there are plenty of those in the medical profession

I would contact the consultants secretary and ask for a further appt. If all your dh has took away from the appt is that a student surgeon will be performing part of the surgery, I don't think enough information has been provided.
The word 'student' makes it sound like an inexperienced learner will be performing the surgery. When it's probably a very experienced registrar, who is in the later stages of their path to consultant level.
Get more information. I don't think you have all the facts at the moment and that will understandably be making you anxious.

I used to be more enthusiastic about the SAS roles, but honestly, if you’re cct’ing don’t go back to SAS’ing. It looked like a better option to me once upon a time but after 15yrs it’s just about worn me down.

Agree with this. If you refuse a resident doctor being involved in the surgery and insist on consultants only, then you are benefitting from every patient who agreed to be part of that consultant's training, while refusing those benefits to future patients. It's akin to being prepared to accept a transplanted organ whilst refusing to donate yourself IMHO.

It isn't down to the individual in most circumstances, not unless you pay. It's also not reasonable to always say 'I don't really care what happens to others, someone else can be the guinea pig'.

I think as well as the language very few people know what goes on in operating theatres. There is a team, it is not like on TV when big Mr surgeon is in charge and everyone else is beholden to him.

There is a team and each has their own role.

I was what was then known as a cardiac tech. In a cath lab you would have a Dr performing the catheterisation / stents. This could be a consultant or a registrar.

There would be a scrub nurse assisting, a radiographer 'steering' the table a circulating nurse and a tech.

My role was to monitor the ECGs and call out what was happening. If I said, "pull out" then the consultant would pull out the catheter.

In bypass surgery for decades the 'vein stripper' is a nurse. His or her job is to remove a vein from the patient's leg for the Surgeon to attach to the coronary arteries.