Tried three places for lunch today and none cater for women

You are wasting your time, I'm afraid. If anything was gong to change, it would have by now.

The problem though is that there is such variation in what accessible truly means for each individual person and it is a very rare place indeed which can cater for any and all comers.

My wheelchair-using father had very different access requirements to my friends 9yr old, who is mobile-ish but incontinent and who needs a hoist in a toilet to be changed.

There are yet again different access requirements for those who are vision impaired or hearing impaired. And yet again different requirements for those who are autistic and who can't handle certain lights or noises. And again for those who are less mobile but who don't use a chair. And in all cases each person is different and what they need is different.

There is no "one size fits all" when it comes to accessibility.

I therefore do not think it unreasonable that specific requirements are checked before hand.

My son had a stoma for 9 months. I'm well aware of how inaccessible toilets can be for those with hidden disabilities too as my son is both physically disabled and has a hidden disability.

I feel the same way about that too. Of course toilets should be more stoma friendly/hidden disability friendly.

Only almost immediately.

Protected characteristic? Protected doesn't equate to being catered for in 100% of places you may like to visit.

You're confusing being actively discriminated against and there simply not being facilities for everyone in the population, not as a matter of principle but the practicalities.

The analogy doesn’t really work though, does it?

Being refused access because you don’t have a penis would be a pure, discriminatory choice made by the person responsible for who is allowed to enter the premises and order food.

Being unable to access the premises due to practical, physical obstacles is different.
It could be a choice - the owner just hasn’t bothered to make alterations to the premises to facilitate wheelchair access - but often it’s not through choice and more to do with the fabric of the building and conversion being impossible or far too costly to be practicable.

Having said all that, I’m sorry you had such a frustrating day. At least now you can cross those venues off your list and explore others that may be able to accommodate your needs.

Sigh...some people are determined to pick holes in anything. I understood you almost immediately @Mrsmunchofmunchington and it is shocking the lengths some posters are going to to let you know how wrong you are! I do agree that accessibility needs are different for everyone, however many places don't even try, because it's only 1 or 2 customers as far as theyre concerned

Disability is a protected characteristic just the same as sex which is another reason why I assume she made the analogy.

Approximately 1.9 % of the population use a wheelchair. Rebuilding everything to accommodate them might be a laudable aim but it won't happen. Just having clean loos for the other 98% would be a good start.

You don't need to 'womansplain'. It's obvious with hindsight now she's explained but the vast majority of posters had no idea what she meant.

Her analogy doesn't work though.

That's because 51% of the population are women. But 51% of the population do not have a disability impacting on access to a cafe or toilets.

So, being in a minority she can't expect everywhere to cater for her needs- harsh as that sounds, but it's a sad fact. I'm fully in agreement with everywhere catering for anyone with a disability but that's not how it is.

For example, my friend could say every shop , supermarket, railway station, garden centre, whatever, must have a toilet available at all times as their IBS causes immense stress when going anywhere.

So to try to make life easier, they phone up or investigate online.

I suppose OP must have been in an unknown town because normally you'd know which cafes etc were suitable.

The only reason why she used the sex of people is because most people on here are women and she was trying to get it across how it feels as a disabled person to be excluded from accessing places.

Sometimes places can appear accessible or even say they are accessible when you call but it's a whole other story when you actually go which is also a reason why it isn't always as simple as calling ahead because you soon learn that you have to ask 50 questions each time.

I have disabilities as well OP but I do check ahead. I'm always impressed when the information is there and clear.

I was looking at West Horsley Place, 'Button house' in the Ghosts series.

https://westhorsleyplace.org/visit-us/access

They have detailed information about steps, gravel, even details of the accessible toilets with photos.

They have gone to such effort to explain the features that are or are not accessible it would seem a waste not to use the guide.

Yes it is shit that not everywhere is accessible, but what is accessible to one person might not be to another eg the raised bumps that tell a blind person they are about to step in to the road are not great if you use crutches.

I imagine it is the same with a food allergy, you will probably need to phone ahead and check.

It's all women talk about, didn't you know?

There are loads of pubs/cafes here that are inaccessible. Mind you, there are loads that are accessible too. So there would definitely be a choice of places.
Not sure about changing places toilets though.

Well meant but why should we have to?
Imagine the outrage if women had to ask in advance if they could get into a pub or cafe?

But everyone knows what women are not banned from establishments other than private clubs which can be men (or women) only. So it's not a relevant comparison.

I'm sorry but I think you're misguided here @Mrsmunchofmunchington
If you have a disability then you will already know that some places are not accessible. That's a fact. It's not right but it's how it is.

So you should phone beforehand to make sure it's suitable.

There are people with all kinds of health conditions where they need suitable premises. But it's no good ranting if they are not provided everywhere.

It's your responsibility to make those checks first, even if it doesn't feel right or fair.

Someone in my family has IBS and they are often in need of a loo at very short notice. I've phoned supermarkets and garden centres etc in advance to ask if they have customer toilets.

There are several pubs in my town that don't have accessible toilets, and at least two where the men's is on the ground floor and the women's up steep stairs.

I asked a friend whose husband is a manager for the local brewery's buildings, and he told her that they're exempt from having to make any sort of provision because they're listed buildings. There's some sort of get-out whereby such provision isn't possible without altering the building that would breach the listed building rules.

She didn't but why else would the sex of the people be used in her analogy?

Was it not suitable for a wheelchair? Stairs? Steps?

If so she should have said that rather than talking in riddles.

True. I chose the wrong equivalence. But my point is that disability isn't the only limiting characteristic. Other people are excluded from other places for all sorts of reasons. It's impossible to make everywhere accessible to all.

The obsession with penises on this site is bewildering.

Brilliant, creative post. X

I think the key here is what is a reasonable adjustment.

That will vary from building to building. A 100 year old building with lots of nooks and crannies is unlikely to ever be able to made fully accessible. A new build should be designed to best fit the needs of as many people as possible.

No, because wealth isn't a protected characteristic?

I thought that this thread was yet another one about trans issues.

It wasn't clear at all.

I'm a wheelchair user but I am also a realist.
We have a lot of old building stock in this country and it needs to be made best use of.

If a building can be adapted sensibly to make it accessible then it should be. But we can't just close down every non-accessible old building

I am far more annoyed by places that think they are accessible but clearly never consulted with an actual wheelchair user - eg they have heavy manual opening doors to their wheelchair lifts /disabled toilets