To be hesitant to invite my sons bully?

I would accept the bully at the party, and keep tabs on him. Who knows you may help everyone win. Your son gains friends, the bully becomes nice and everyone gels along and the party turns out good for everyone. This is me, i hope you make the right choice.

No, you are teaching your son boundaries here. He does not have to allow someone who makes his life miserable spoil his special day. (enough time for that in the future when he has a MIL who he doesn't like trying to dominate Christmas haha)

Does ND also make you manipulative and order other children to tear up invitations to somebody else's party that has nothing to do with you?

The issue is, though, that even if a child does frequently lash out and hurt other children solely because of ND, that still doesn't mean that other children don't have the right to be protected and kept safe from the effects of the behaviour.

"Charlie isn't punching you because he's being deliberately horrid; he's punching you because he is ND, so he can't control it" - doesn't mean that the children on the receiving end need to just ignore the hurt and pain and put up with it.

Even when adult professionals are caring for somebody with very challenging issues that cause them to be violent, they're still taught to protect themselves and try to restrain - they aren't just told "Tough, you're just going to get punched, so accept it".

My ds is 6. I find the boys that are reported as 'bullies' in his class are actually those waiting assessment for ND. I think their behaviour is a bit scary for other children when they get disregulated and they can lash out. Primary school classes of 30+ are not a good place for people who get overwhelmed by smells and noise!

So I am inclined to assume that my ds' description of said 'bullies' does not really account for any of this and I'd invite them along.

I also dont trust the words of other parents on these things because some of them have shared appalling views on our class WhatsApp!

There are always two sides to any story

Often there are; but that's irrelevant when it's YOUR party and YOU get to decide whom you want to invite and celebrate with. Private-hosted get-togethers are not community fetes.

It's not up to somebody else to argue or justify their 'right' to come or not - any more than, in the adult world, somebody on online dating would have the 'right' to make their case why you 'should' date them, even though you aren't attracted to them and haven't even given any indication whatsoever that you are.

If your son told him he could come to his party does he still think he Dan even though he's not got an invite, is there a chance he could turn up anyway.

Do not invite a child that is bullying your son to his birthday party. Why would you even consider that? It's nuts. Who gives a shit how the bully feels about it. If any parents ask, "it's because he's been bullying ds". End of.

Ach who cares if it’s mean or nasty to leave a bully out? That’s exactly what they deserve. That’s not the OP’s guilt to shoulder; it’s for his own parents to deal with.

I hope your son & the rest of the class talk about the party for ages at school. Let the boy hear first hand what he missed out on.

Of course we only have her word for it, it's the same for all OP's.

I wouldn't be taking the risk and have a child hurt my child (again) at his birthday party.

We only have her word for these things actually happening and this is coming from a 5 year old who knows mum does not like this boy after an incident last year.

There could be another boy going home also saying they are being bullied - mummy Fred has told other children they aren't allowed to play with me. I was playing with Sam and Max and Fred came over. He told me they were invited to his party but I'm not coming because he doesn't like me (this made me mad so I shouted/told them they shouldn't go either and should rip up their invitations). When I ask to play with children Fred comes and tells the friends not to play with me and says they should play with him instead and takes them away.

Yes the boy might have been hit in reception but this is still unclear - I witness a lot of rough play and fill in a lot of accident forms for when things get carried away. Is the cut lip really from a proper smack in the face, or were the boys playing something like power rangers and the punch actually hit rather than pretend? Or the cut lip wasnt necessarily directly caused by the boy but indirectly e.g. pushed over (again playing rough) which meant he got a cut lip.

There are always two sides to any story and I feel that it is very wrong to exclude one child from a party, especially when it is likely the parents would be staying/could be asked to stay.

In the future, your number 1 priority is protecting your children, not keeping other people happy.
You need to show your children you are in their corner, and they also don't have to put up with awful behaviour to keep other people happy.
If my child was bullying a kid, I would WANT them to miss out on an invitation. There needs to be consequences for bad behaviour or how will it ever stop. Please learn from this.

That was once though.

This child has hit OP's son so hard he's had a cut lip, kicked him, encouraged others to rip up invitations, attempted to intimidate him to try and get an invite and has also pushed him again recently.

Once is very different to your child complaining multiple times about the same child.

So you think that pretty much the whole class is completely mistaken in believing that he's being so deliberately unkind to them that they avoid him and are frightened of him?

I agree that, given his age, his parents should have been far firmer on him; but it sounds like they're the sort who just don't care. It isn't inevitable at all, but if left decisively undealt-with, many 5yo bullies will become far worse bullies by the time they're 15; then, a few years later, not a few of them will be 'known to the authorities', with some of them maybe even in detention/prison.

As I said before, even if we blithely set aside all of the personal value and rights of OP's DS and the well-behaved children in his class, this 5yo bully is being/has been neglected by not being disciplined and firmly taught right from wrong, as most people with responsible parents learn well before they go to school. His parents may just prefer the easy life, but they are doing him absolutely no favours whatsoever.

And although it should primarily be his parents' issue to deal with, other parents giving him treats as rewards for his nasty behaviour really aren't helping him either - or the rest of society, in the long run.

But the extent to this we are not sure about.
I feel everyone is jumping in on this boy who may not have done anything at all this school year.

The school are unable to say specifically how they might deal with another child or name them. A teacher had to once tell me my son got pushed off his chair in class as another child got angry at the work! The teacher couldn't say who the child was (my son told me though as this was in year 4) and she couldn't tell me specific details of the consequence, only that they would be given one.

As I have said a few times this is a 5 year old, not a 15 year old. I think the story is very much exaggerated.

Sounds to me that the bully (as bullies often do) has learned to be a manipulative little shit at an early age. It's a pity he got invited as he could have learned another valuable lesson - that bullies aren't liked and will miss out.

I'd be enrolling your DS in self-defence classes - they're also good for building confidence. The school sounds ineffectual.

"Your son was never actually invited, as my son naturally only wanted his friends there, and your son regularly bullies him, so he obviously wasn't on the list. He intimidated my son and demanded to be allowed to come, so my son said that he could come, without asking us, because he was frightened and felt threatened by him as usual; but just to confirm and to eliminate any possible doubt, your son absolutely is NOT invited."

Just speak the truth; don't even attempt to wear the shame and awkwardness that belong solely to the boy's own parents.

But originally you weren't inviting the whole class. You have now made a right mess of this by leaving one child out.
How would you feel if this was reversed? What if the other boy has gone home reporting your child as the bully and your child is then the only one not invited to a class party by them?
You seem focused on no one liking him and it doesn't matter as the parents don't seem to talk to many people, but how do you really know that?
You needed to stick to inviting under half the class, now you come across as rude.

Again there is still nothing to say you have spoken to the school about it. All you are saying is what has supposedly happened. If this was my child I would have spoken to the teachers and asked for a class swap if possible.
I would be very surprised that you are saying this boy has no friends - I have worked with some really tricky children (with sen) that have had outbursts where they have sworn or kicked out at classmates BUT they are really popular and lots of children enjoy playing with them. I genuinely can't think of a single child where I work that is disliked by a whole class, even if they are a bit more 'lively'.

The way you present this child is like a monster and I think people are forgetting this is a 5 year old. I think we are getting a very exaggerated and dramatised version of what really goes on.