DD and boyfriend are wasting their lives

Sounds like you've not gotten to know and appreciate your DD for who she is as a person and you just want to live your life through her. Some people don't like partying. Some would prefer to go for long country walks, bake and crochet. Why don't you just love her for how she is instead of whinging that she's not more like you.

I agree with previous posters that travel in itself doesn't always lead to you stretching yourself. And you can damage the planet.

Perhaps the thing is the mentality you bring to your life, meditation through making sourdough and patience, finding the awe in the everyday.

The moral requirement is to live with intention and find meaning. That's a better framing, my original one wasn't as good.

There's people who travel who are learners and some who are showoffs, and there are people who stay home who are meditative learners and some who are boring dullards.

However, on balance, most of us learn something from coming into contact with different sorts of people and environments, though?? - unless you're an utter self-centred fuckwit?

The overall likelihood for most of us is that new experiences broaden the mind.

And if everyone, in every place in the world, has a broader mind, that's a good thing.

It sounds like you're trying to relive your youth vicariously though your daughter. If she's happy then what business is it of yours?
Also have you seen the cost of living? If they're trying to save to buy a house then a walking holiday sounds a lot more sensible than going to travel (and if they do go they're probably more likely to visit museums, temples and churches rather than clubs!)

You sound, insufferable to say the least. People in other cultures don’t exist to educate you or expand your mind.

I am, indeed, insufferable. But not for this reason. I agree with this! Which is why I said literally the same thing.

But also - going to the same destinations every white middle class person goes to, doing the same things and seeing the same sites does not stretch you

How can it be a 'moral requirement' to stretch yourself? It's just personal choice whether you want to go travelling or climb a mountain or whatever. If anything, you could argue its more 'moral' to stay at home and not pollute the planet by using aeroplanes etc.

“When I was in my 20’s I was …”

Read that paragraph back. That alone is the one statement that always makes me despair when I read it, and you read and hear it spoken over SO many issues. And it is so, wrong.

That is what YOU did. Why should they think like you, do as you did, or dare to be different, notwithstanding they are a different generation and each generation changes in its habits? They are INDIVIDUALS, not yours to dictate to, which pleasures they should enjoy and which they should not-what a foolish thing to expect.

If they were taking cocaine or heroin together, I could understand your concern, but this, is just asking for them to distance themselves from you and hopefully it’s not too late.

Moral Requirement to stretch ourselves ?

why?

look what we have done as a species ? Medicine good , nuclear weapons, climate change , bad. We get caught up in pushing things without thinking about the use for good or evil , without thinking about how to ensure only good

perhaps the moral responsibility is to live a quiet life doing as little damage as possible ? Being content rather than always wanting more ( more than a fair share )

( I ask this as a constantly learning , love new experiences sort of person so it’s not clear cut to me )

Have you seen how much it costs nowadays to have the lifestyle you had?

Although I guess the dogs won't be cheap, how lovely they have a settled life they are both happy with. Sounds gloriously relaxing.

OP, I just hope you wake up one day and realise how lucky you are to have a happy and healthy DD. She's got different priorities to you, that's all. FWIW I envy her lifestyle and I would have loved to have been doing the things she's done, when I was 27. I have never partied or been clubbing either and I never wanted to, your daughter's priorities sound perfect to me. We're all different - that's all.

You sound, insufferable to say the least. People in other cultures don’t exist to educate you or expand your mind. You can easily do things that better you as a person without the white saviour shit. For example, I’m determined to nail making the perfect sourdough. It teaches you patience!

OP’s daughter will be far better off eating healthily and taking long walks than she will be from clubbing.

I don't know, though. I've done a lot of different things outside my comfort zone physically and mentally. But the best person I know is my best friend from school who has never left the cluster of villages we grew up in.

The thing is, walking the dog can help you grow as a person, if you're the sort of person who treats that quiet time as an opportunity to use your brain.

My friend who has never been anywhere or done anything outside of her 'little world' does more to support the environment and people in that few square miles than some of the most travelled people I know who've travelled and run marathons have ever done for anyone.

Because the truth is, my friend is quite selfless. And it's been my experience that risk takers and adventurers are seldom the sorts of people who actually give much of a damn about anyone else.

Your dog walker cares enough about another creature to ensure it has exercise, even in awful weather. That's growth. Climbing a mountain to see if you can do it, whilst potentially getting others in danger to rescue you if you have difficulties...is that really growing them as a person more than the dog walker?

I'd say I have grown a lot more as a person since I pushed myself to do more for others than for myself. And you really don't have to undergo physical endurance or travel thousands of miles to do that.

It's very variable, though. I had bad health in my 40s, for various reasons. I'm a lot better now, plus I'm retired, so I actually have more money, time and energy to do stuff that I want to.
You really can't tell how things will go.
My point is, this young woman is 27. She can totally have a change of lifestyle later, if she wanted to.
For the moment, maybe climbing Kinder Scout is a challenge!

Imagine all the fucks boys along the way from clubbing days shudder.

She could well be one of us who’s actually found her long term partner without having to kiss 50 frogs a long the way. Won’t be rushing to settle down because her clocks ticking (if
she wants children) and end up with a looser.

May I recommend they hire a campavan and do a tour of the old castles of wales with their dog. It’s lovely.

Some people think the party scene is boring, OP.

You've criticised your daughter for not clubbing, partying or drinking much alcohol. (Oh, and because her carbon footprint is too small.)

You're accusing her of wasting her life, but spending your money and time drinking overpriced alcohol, wearing uncomfortable clothes, listening to music you don't like which is too loud for you to be able to talk to your friends and sticking to the floor in some grotty club (whether it's in Manchester or Málaga) is a big old waste of life for anyone who doesn't enjoy that. Most of my uni friends enjoyed that so I went along and spent money I couldn't really afford doing something I didn't really want to be doing because I didn't want to be left out. I was absolutely thrilled once we all left uni and got jobs and I didn't have to pretend to enjoy clubbing anymore.

And most of the people I wasted all that time and money with were people I never saw again after uni. A couple of them are people I am still friends with now, and I love the fact that our meetups now tend to take place in a National Trust type place where we can have a nice walk, admire the flowers, and then grab a table next to the play area and enjoy a coffee and piece of cake whilst watching our children out of one eye.

If your daughter and her boyfriend want to go on walking holidays in the Lake District with their dogs at the age of 27, good for them. They sound like more interesting people than the sort of person who thinks they are wasting their youth because they choose to enjoy nature walks rather than falling out of clubs at 3am.

If they didn't want to go clubbing at 18 and they don't want to go clubbing now, they're not going to regret not going clubbing in 10 or 20 or 50 years' time. They're really not.

As for the travel, that's easily remedied. If they decide at the age of 45 that they haven't seen enough of the world, Japan will still be there.

But your DD is happy. That should be all that matters.
You want her to do more, but she doesn’t. It’s her life, not yours. You’ve had your life and presumably done what you want. Now it’s her turn.
Just leave the poor girl alone Op. stop trying to interfere.

But why do you think people MUST stretch themselves? Maybe OP’s daughter is perfectly happy as she is, and doesn’t want to go on one of those performative trips that make her look like a white saviour in some poor part of the world

Oh God yes, you're right about the white saviour trips. That's why I said the 90s version of this was lazy- it was far closer to that, like "the world is there for my education". That isn't the kind of thing I was thinking at all. It's more like doing something where you realise what a small part you are of the world, and how your received wisdom is likely wrong in many ways.

I guess I just ...do think people MUST stretch themselves! We're all perfectly happy when we are totally cosy and comfy, but I think there's a moral requirement as a human to strive for greater understanding.

And the physical thing, well, it's partly common sense. Stay up all night when you're 20-40, because when you're 50-70 and you have to do it, you feel exponentially more like shit! And it makes you a better, healthier more capable person to have a bigger physical comfort zone, so why wouldn't you.

I was wondering that, too. You could be right, but something else is going on here. Another poster has suggested that she's transferring, because of her own ageing? Perhaps as she's getting older, she's negative about her young adult daughter's choices?
Plus the remarks about the DD living in "Little England", her disparaging term for where she lives - white and middle class. Yet the OP is white and middle class.
It's a strange one, really.

But why do you think people MUST stretch themselves? Maybe OP’s daughter is perfectly happy as she is, and doesn’t want to go on one of those performative trips that make her look like a white saviour in some poor part of the world?

Yeah that could be it @ScarlettOYara . I think OP doesnt know quite why the kids exasperate her so much. Some is plain old social embarrassment. But there's an edge of something more meaningful that I was trying to work out.

I was trying to work out the why does it feel right to me that young people should strive and push themselves a bit?

@CancelTheTableAlan , I think part of the problem is the embarrassment when the OP talks to her friends. Their kids have gone to NZ and the OP feels she can't compete.
It's a shame.

I would think a day climbing Mam Tor, enjoying the amazing view, then visiting Peveril Castle would be preferable to having vodka and a kebab after clubbing.

Kids are just like this these days OP.

I was talking about this with a friend…. When we were teens & early 20s in the late 90s/early 00s all we done was party & we would have went to work the next day with no sleep. But now the kids don’t drink alcohol and their idea of a good time is having a mooch around the M&S food hall, going to Pilates and grabbing a matcha after.

Ok so drinking/partying is a red herring.

I have RTFT and this is what I think we should take from it. OP hasn't quite articulated this, but my thesis is that a young person should make sure they do the things you can ONLY do when young and fit, and things which challenge your preconceptions, while they are still being formed and your brain is plastic. (disclaimer- assuming able bodied, not to be ableist as some folks do not have the spoons for this kind of challenge).

Take the drinking out of OPs post and substitute :-

• A challenge of physical jeopardy - which requires endurance, or strength, or energy to complete. Could be charity work done somewhere in extreme heat or a dangerous place. Could be competitive sport. Could be driving round every day to a different little pub to hone your stand up routine in the face of hecklers and not getting home till 2am, then showing up at work and pushing on through. Could be taking drugs for 2 days if you want (though I would find that a bit of a meaningless use of energy). Could be doing a legal trainee role and being the one who stays up 50 hours straight in the office to get the deal done.These things train you to stretch your physical capability and your mental endurance, and test your fit youthful body.

• A challenge of social stretch Something that forces you into connection with an unusual set of people or circumstances so that your usual social responses need to be recalibrated. Could be working abroad, that's an easy one. Or finding a way to socialise outside your usual circles. The idea is to make your brain less rigid so you can be a better human and make more compassionate choices for yourself and the world.

• A challenge to your morality and political outlook.Could be achieved through one of the above but could also be travelling to see how people live differently, or doing some political volunteering, learning a new subject, or making art (rather than craft).

I believe we all should try and do this when we are young. 90s shorthand version was a bit of a lazy one of "partying and travel" but there's more ways to do it. 100% dog walks won't grow you as a human. I actually think it's ok to judge someone who seems to have no "stretch" in their life.

As we age, we can still try, but the level of energy we can bring to it diminishes. And we often have caring responsibilities that mean our own development is put on the back burner.

OP is horribly judgmental of her poor daughter though. I’m willing to bet they see friends for coffee and dinner, but OP doesn’t see it as “real” socialising because it doesn’t involve half a bottle of vodka and staggering home at 4am. I’m exactly the same as OP’s daughter, minus the partner (as much as I’ve tried!), as are all of my friends. It’s clear OP is just pushing her own standards on her daughter.