Starmer’s support for Palestine

Thank you for this. I will email my local MP and get their opinion.

In case it's useful to anyone - here is a proforma email to send to your MP to request them to clarify their stance now that the UK formerly recognises the state of Palestine:

Dear . . . . .

In light of the action by the Labour Government to state that the UK now formerly recognise the state of Palestine, and as a member of your constituency, I am writing to you, as my MP, to request that you:

1. disavow your recent vote to ban Palestine Action and to nullify all actions against people peacefully protesting in solidarity with Palestinians
2. acknowledge that Israeli actions clearly fit the legal definition of genocide
3. join other Labour MPs in signing Early Day Motion 1310 calling for the immediate suspension of all UK arms sales to Israel.

Can you please update me on your stance and intentions on each of these 3 requests along with your justification for each?

Thank you

My suggestion is a lot less offensive than the fighting that killed 3,600 and wounded 30,000 people.

Even their own countrymen/women in Ireland didn't support them.

Barrister and media personality Joe Brolly recently set social media alight with some comments taken from a longer interview. Brolly asserted that the Northern Ireland Troubles saw the emergence of a southern orthodoxy whereby "nationalists in the north were to blame".

He was then joined by one-time MP and long-time rights activist Bernadette McAliskey, who argued that "the northern Catholic was and still is looked on by the southern state as not worth the trouble". The words aroused a strong sense of approval among a considerable demographic within the north; many of whom feel that southern Irish society did indeed 'fail' them.

Nonetheless, it is clear that a considerable majority of southerners were critical of the PIRA and wider republican violence and it is this, rather than blanket rejection, which forms the feeling of historical alienation among a certain northern cohort. As with most northern Catholics, the southern Irish could see the logic of the civil rights movement as a response to the situation faced by the minority there. But they could not see the proportion or moral justification in endlessly bombing and shooting British soldiers, and more especially policemen, civil servants, and members of the public.

Going even further back in history an often forgotten fact about the Battle of the Boyne in 1690 was that the Pope of the day supported the Protestant King William of Orange against the supporters of the deposed Catholic King James II of England.
This unusual alliance came about because the Papacy, then a world power, was at odds with King Louis XIV of France, who was an ally of King James.
It is said that a Mass of deliverance was celebrated in Rome after King William's victory.

If Israel hadn't been killing a disproportionate amount of people per hostage held, then people would be marching for the hostages to be released.

It's like when you have 2 kids. One has wound up the other and wound up one hits the other in the face with a frying pan. The one with the frying pan is the one that gets told off. If they hadn't of done that, the one winding up the other would have been told off.

If Israel hadn't been killing a disproportionate amount of people per hostage held, then people would be marching for the hostages to be released.

It's like when you have 2 kids. One has wound up the other and wound up one hits the other in the face with a frying pan. The one with the frying pan is the one that gets told off. If they hadn't of done that, the one winding up the other would have been told off.

Sorry but this is horrifying. You wanted Irish people in NI to wait generations to be treated with basic dignity in their own country? Until they could “lie down and breed” enough people to have a majority?

The NI people who became terrorists didn’t just do so because they wanted a united Ireland, with everything else having been rosy. They were being subjected to systematic discrimination in a multitude of ways ever since Ireland was petitioned. It took a very long time before they went from that to terrorism (those who did, which was by no means everyone or even a majority).

I’m not saying terrorism is ever justified, but your post is incredibly offensive.

So where are the marches demanding the hostages are freed. Where are the placards condemning Hamas? How will recognising Hamas as a legitimate government help anyone? Surely demanding the hostages are freed and demanding Hamas apologise and face sanctions will de escalate things? Taking away Israel’s justification for the war may help. Hamas are claiming this as a victory. So the terrorists get rewarded.

Sorry but this is horrifying. You wanted Irish people in NI to wait generations to be treated with basic dignity in their own country? Until they could “lie down and breed” enough people to have a majority?

The NI people who became terrorists didn’t just do so because they wanted a united Ireland, with everything else having been rosy. They were being subjected to systematic discrimination in a multitude of ways ever since Ireland was petitioned. It took a very long time before they went from that to terrorism (those who did, which was by no means everyone or even a majority).

I’m not saying terrorism is ever justified, but your post is incredibly offensive.

I understand why governments are doing this but I think it is unlikely to work.

Most of this situation has been very deliberately manufactured by Hamas, they are making decisions, including deliberate war crimes against their own people, that are intended to manufacture a mass killing of their own people.

Hiding munitions in hospitals, hiding soldiers with civilians, these are war crimes - and I don't mean metaphorically, I mean according to international law - because they inevitably mean it becomes impossible to differentiate military from civilian targets and will result in the exact kinds of horrors laws of war were written to prevent.

So that has now been successful, there is no reason for Hamas to change their tactics and it will solidify their hold on the Palestinian people, who they are entirely willing to sacrifice as martyrs for their cause.

God - some of the pro - Israel propaganda in here is scary.

It’s like that thread that got deleted on Mumsnet talking about how what starving looks like and how the people of Gaza couldn’t be starving as they weren’t thin enough.

Absolutely devoid of any compassion.

The difference bring herzog are not a recognised terrorist regime. Hamas are internationally recognised as terrorists.

They’ve dropped explosives equivalent to five Hiroshima nuclear bombs on Gaza so far, obliterating almost every school, hospital and landmark and killing tens of thousands of children in the process. People hate Netanyahu and his cronies because they’re fucking evil.

😂😂😂

Starmer is about as Marxist or far left as Hitler was a real humanitarian.

What is most hysterical about this is that many of Marxisms greatest figures were Jewish, and one of the greatest anti-semitic lies is the Jewish Bolshevism conspiracy theory which was used by Hitler to justify his final solution. Marxists are bothered about Gaza because of the genocide, and that includes Jewish Marxists. None of which are likely to be members of the Labour Party.

If Israel are so terrible and brutal why are Hamas not releasing the hostages and bringing the war to an end? Why did one of their leaders go on TV to say they're a nation of martyrs and are happy to be martyrs for their cause?

If people really cared so much about the 'poor' Palestinians, where is the global pressure and condemnation of Hamas for starting this war and continuing it?

You shouldn't have to defend every single statement about genocide in Gaza by explaining in detail why criticising a government committing genocide isn't hatred towards Jews. I believe everyone already know this very well.

Yet people pop up constantly saying criticism of the actions of the Israeli government is religious hatred, requiring that same discussion over and over again.

Everyone already knows that opposing genocide committed by a government is not religious hatred. Nor does opposing genocide suggest that religious hatred is not a real, deplorable thing. It's just not the same thing, as we all very well know.

Saying genocide is wrong does not imply that you think the actions of Hamas are excusable or that you haven't considered them.

It's very obvious that the issue here is that Israel's actions are disproportionate.

Endlessly coming back to those two points is just re-establishing the basics over and over, which I think is a way to avoid nuanced discussion or scrutiny of the actions of Israel.

I sincerely doubt anyone actually believes opposing genocide is anti-Semitic.

I also sincerely doubt that anyone thinks people who oppose genocide, a humanitarian issue, don't care about innocent Israelis being slaughtered, raped and taken hostage.

No. I dont think that's the case.

I think what's going on is a disgrace.

But by not including Hamas at every turn you end up with a simplistic solution worthy only of 6th formers.

It's easy to say just stop the killing. It's simple. It's logical. And i cant think of anyone who would disagree.

But you can't do that unilaterally.

Take it to its extreme conclusion and you end up with a situation where Israel has no options.

1. Hamas won't surrender
2. Hamas is massively intertwined with the civilian population
3. Hamas holds hostages and is torturing them, so time is of the essence.
4. Killing a member of Hamas will result in civilian injury and death - it cannot be avoided.
5. We dont want civilian injury and death
6. Israel owes a duty of care to its own soldiers so hand to hand fighting amongst a population where civilians and combatants are indistinguishable is not an option
7. Ergo, Israel can do nothing
8. Hamas can continue to take free shots at Israel

There is no solution without considering what Hamas has done / are doing / will do.

I take the opposite view to you. People's focus on only the Israeli actions hides any criticism for Hamas continuing this war.

At least Hitler killed himself towards the end thereby sparing some Germans (and ordinary Germans were possibly more complicit than Gazans).

Starmer has no problem with sitting around with representatives of terrorist states. He hosted Herzog last week and Herzog represents a state that is committing genocide and bombing its neighbours.

But it’s ok they were killed as long as they didn’t suffer?? What is wrong with you?