Starmer’s support for Palestine

If you drop a 500lb bomb on a school full of displaced children you are intentionally murdering them.
If you sniper a child when they are going for water you are intentionally murdering them.
If you shoot 355 bullets into a car with a child and kill them you are intentionally murdering a child.
If you carry out a ground assault on a hospital ensuring babies are left to die in their incubators it is intentional.

And depending on your viewpoint if you destroy 4000 embryos in an IVF facility deliberately it is intentional.

I would be very surprised if there were no rogue operators in the fight against a threat like Hamas and Gazan civlian mobs.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_snipers_target_palestinian_children_in_gaza

The Israeli soldier who spoke to Sky News anonymously said they do intentionally kill children.

You may disagree, but I don't think Israel's intention is to murder children. But that was very clearly the intention on 7 October. It's nothing to do with lives being worth less.

So a life is worth less if the intention is different?

And surely the intention is the same.Both parties wanted the children dead, and they succeeded.

The intention.

‘There is a difference in children being killed …’

I wouldn’t call you old fashioned. I would call you a lot of other things namely completely devoid of any compassion or humanity for that response. It’s the very reason why the whole world has turned against Israel because normal people cannot stomach innocent children being brutally murdered day and day out but above all, what’s sickening for us is the lengths that you people will go to justify the killing of children.

I don't understand.

What is the difference if both sets of children were innocent?

I think Israel should end all military attacks. Regroup politically. Hold an election - the new PM will issue statements saying he abhors ‘genocide’. They wish to live peacefully next to Palestine - which they recognise as a state. Put Hamas completely on the back foot. Regain the political support of western allies.
This is the only way out now.

Hamas will continue to build militarily - to the detriment of their civilian population - Iran will support them. If and when they decide to try destroy Israel then I am sure most MNetters will say it was well deserved. This is where the world has landed.

Call me old-fashioned, but to me there is a difference between children being killed in war (a war started by thier own country, and fought by combatants who ensure maximum civilian deaths) and children being killed in a sudden terrorist attack of unprecedented violence and cruelty, where the perpetrators laughed while they ramped up the psychological and physical sadism. An attack that was carefully planned (by Hamas) yet to some extent spontaneous (the civlian mobs who swarmed across the border to join in the fun).

Yes agree re Hamas. What is the way out of this now?

@Beachtasticthank you for explaining again, as terrible as it is.

Exactly this. Hamas have been much much more clever than Israel. Indoctrinate your civilians to consider death as martyrdom.
Bombing the hell out of Gaza hasn’t and won’t win this war - politically or militarily.

But rewarding Hamas in this way is very disappointing from Starmer.

I agree with you. It is emphatic support for a terrorisist organisation. But Israel have lost the support of their allies. They needed to respond to the 7th October attacks very differently. Much more strategically. They have played straight into Hamas’s text book strategy.

He found the remains and mistook them for children…. So what about the actual remains of actual children- Palestinian children?

It started with traumatised rescue workers (and IDF) trying to make sense of what they had just found, when pestered by international press in the immediate aftermath of the sadistic massacre. I saw posts on here mocking one of the rescue workers who found the remains and mistook them for children. His distress was palpable, and yet he was dismissed (even reviled) here as a Jew liar. I'll never forget it.

The post on here detailing why and talking about the scene faced showed why it was said. I won’t say it again as it’s sad, brutal and about people’s suffering.

On that I can see why the ‘debunked’ line travelled around the world quickly when it shouldn’t have.

I think it would be crazy to say that there is no anti semitism. There obviously is, it has been getting worse over the past few years and I believe it has ramped up since the 7/10 attacks. It's horrific. There is no excuse for it and it needs to stop. Israel carrying out genocide is no justification to be anti semitic or to deny that anti semitism doesn't exist or isn't a problem.

Same here. Vicious. And it was so instant, quicker even than the pro-Hamas speech by Palestine Action's co-founder on 8 Oct and the PSC's anti-Israel march in London the following weekend (organised as the attacks of 7 Oct were unfolding). And full of so many blatant lies and distortions, hard to keep up with. It looks as though many of the threads have been deleted retrospectively, and the sheer volume of them has diminished over the past year or so, maybe because MN tightened up on spamming from bad actors.

Those pictures are heartbreaking.

Anyone who supports this has lost their moral compass.

Apparently the allegation originated with soldiers of the IDF. Just goes to show the truth of the saying that a lie can be halfway around the world while the truth is still getting its boots on. The Israeli government has never confirmed the allegation, and surely they would if they had concrete confirmation of it, wouldn’t they?

I remember immediately after 7/10 before Israel even retaliated, the anti Semitism and anti Semitic attacks.....which really makes the whole, there's no anti Semitism, people are just against genocide spiel even more difficult to believe.

I don't remember any comments on Oct 7 itself saying 'Israel must pay'.

I'm sure you don't, but I definitely do.

I don't remember any comments on Oct 7 itself saying 'Israel must pay'. I do think though that people forget how quickly Israel began to kill children in huge numbers. By the time a week had passed since Oct 7 Israel had killed at least 720 Palestinian children, they had announced that they were going to destroy Gaza and that they were going to starve everyone. Now here we are almost 2 years later Gaza has been destroyed, children are suffering from malnutrion and famine has been declared in Gaza city just like Israel promised that they would do in the very first week of this conflict.

If people would have listened not just to the people saying Israel should stop, they are genocidal but to Israel themselves who promised widespread destruction and starvation, would be where we are today with at least 20000 dead children, the most child amputees in the world and 1000s of children suffering from acute malnutrion? Instead for a very long time the worlds leaders pretended that what Israel was doing was self defence and not following through with the macabre promises they made in the week following Oct 7 that they would 'eliminate everything' in Gaza.

https://www.healthcare-management.uk/doctor-suspended-following-anti-semitic-tweets

Some hospitals are willing to get rid of thr antisemites in their ranks, so why thr fuck is she still practicing?