Starmer’s support for Palestine

I don't disagree. The situation unfortunately seems insoluble. And meanwhile as ever, it's the women and children who suffer most.

In 2023 South Africa filed a case at the International Court of Justice, the highest court for disputes between states, accusing Israel of genocide. The case will take years to reach a verdict and in the meantime it has ordered Israel to take action to prevent acts of genocide as it wages war against Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip.

There has long been a link suspected between South Africa and Hamas and these seems to support that -

https://thestar.co.za/news/2025-07-22-serious-accusations-against-south-africa-alleged-collaboration-with-hamas-sparks-diplomatic-storm/

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2023-11-30-hamas-leaders-presence-in-sa-for-a-palestine-solidarity-convention-stirs-controversy/

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/383568

But Netanyahu isn’t with Hamas? You seem to be describing Hamas there.

Cue? They've been doing that for nearly two years.

That's not quite correct.

British influence in Ireland began in 1169, when Norman knights arrived on the island in search of conquest and colonization.

So try blaming the French not the British !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8641wv0n4go

@Steph888 Hamas aside- (and what they have done is blatant terrorism and unforgivable!) HOWEVER There is now enough proof that genocide has been committed in Gaza.
Stop using Hamas as an excuse to justify a crime against humanity.

This not down to public opinion, this is down to proof and hard evidence.

The insanity and bloodshed in the Middle East needs to stop from both sides.

Honestly, I don’t pretend to know the solution. I can’t even begin to understand the generational trauma those people live with.

What I do know is the prime minister of my own country is a virtue signalling prick who likes to make grand statements to win favour and sits on whichever side of the fence gives him the most popularity.

This is exactly my view.

Hamas are abhorrent. The hostages absolutely should be released. The State of Israel should exist and should be able to defend itself. Any views to the contrary are anti-Semitic, and Jewish people the world over have experienced increases in anti-semitism in recent years without any possible justification. All of this is true.

None of that undermines the same right to statehood for the Palestinian people. It does not follow that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. Israel must exist within the confines of international law. Its defence of itself must be proportionate.

The inability to hold all these views at the same time is incomprehensible to me.

Ok. Skip the lies also please.
It wasn't decades ago - Hamas assumed control in 2007.

So that's 19 years that the good Palestinian people have had to rise up and remove them from power. How have they done?

Anti-Hamas protests in the territory took place in 2025, in summer 2023, 2019, and from 2011 to 2012. They have never been large (typically 100s or a few thousand people from a population of millions).
I think this does make the people of Gazs complicit in the subsequent activities of Hamas, just as we would be complicit if Reform went ape-shit once elected and attacked France.

These placard waving protests have had no effect except reprisals by Hamas. There has been IIRC no civil disobedience campaigns nor armed struggle to remove Hamas. There is no partisan movement trying to remove these terrorists.

So let's say the Palestinian people are innocent dupes. No reason not to.
In which case they are horribly oppressed and we should be pushing for the removal of Hamas for their sake alone.

But we all know that they are dug in so deeply, in the infrastructure, the organisations, etc that removing them by force cannot be done without massive harm to the civilians - even if it were done by the most Palestinian friendly army.

It would be easier if they could all be let into Egypt while the war rages but Egypt does not want that.

One irony I suppose of Palestine being a country in its own right must be that it will have an army with its soldiers in uniform , distinguished from civilians, and it will operate under the Geneva conventions in terms of people it has taken prisoner.
Yeah - I can dream.

This!! In spades.

How does a two state solution realistically work if the other side is systematically stealing your land and displacing your people? Asking nicely doesn't appear to have worked and that's why we now have a terrorist group in charge of Palestine.

From a purely domestic perspective, I see it as nothing more than Labour trying to keep large numbers of their voters appeased.

It's much more complicated from an international perspective, not least because the Palestinians rejected the two state solution. But here's a question - if it does happen, will they forget their oft stated desire to wipe Israel and Jews from the map?

And yes, what Netanyahu's government is doing is beyond reprehensible.

not everyone agrees with you - after the above the British gov decided to bring in legislation that prohibits their army being held accountable or investigated or prosecuted for such crimes (not that it was routine before - actually incredibly difficult to get it done, several faux inquiries held first, complete opposite to your suggestion that it’s easy). I’m curious why there is zero outrage about that - I presume for large swaths of the population it is okay if it’s their side.

I think we have to be realistic - a two state solution is the only viable solution. I have always been sympathetic of the Jewish cause - one cannot possibly comprehend the horrors of the Holocaust. And really the persecution throughout history - there is no debate on this. And no one can condone the attacks of October 7th. Absolutely not. No one with a soul would think that those attacks are deserving and even that some action needed to be taken in retaliation. However, we can’t sit here and pretend that Israel's response is a measured response. How can we look the other way whilst ordinary Palestinians are systemically being wiped out. Fitting Hamas and terrorism cannot come at the cost of a whole people, otherwise we are equally at fault.

Well no you’re wrong in that. There was never a unified Irish state before British occupation. In fact what the British did was remarkably similar to the Israeli Government. There’s a lot of similarities between the plantations of the 16th and 17th centuries and the settlements today.

There are specific criteria in international law for recognition of statehood. That is what should guide whether states are recognised or not.

Cue people now putting up Palestinian flags in the UK in celebration. This isn’t going to end well……

Bearing in mind Israel has been stealing land from the Palestinians for over 40 years, it doesn't look like Netanyahu just wants to wipe out Hamas.

Israel has some of the most high tech military equipment in the world. They could easily done targeted attacks without all the collateral damage, they simply didn't want to.

Exactly this and no OP, you are not alone in your opinion, It's a cowardly and foolish move by Starmer.

Considering the views on Muslims, homosexuality and women in some Jewish sects I wouldnt be waving that lack of homophobic thinking and misogyny two high in comparison.

I think you missed my point, the countries I listed were founded on terrorism,
Vive La Revolution

Ok, I see maybe 5 guys in London, 2 with Palestinian flags. Even if we assume they are celebrating Oct 7th, that is not really mass celebrations in the streets of London. The prior poster also said this happened on Oct 7th before Israel had even begun to retaliate. The Jerusalem Post actually says about this screenshot:
“Tellingly, the worst week for antisemitic incidents in the UK was the week following the October 7 massacre – well before Israel’s response had reached its peak.”

The week following Oct 7th. You know by Oct 10th, the bombardment of Gaza had killed more civilians and more children than Hamas had?

Perhaps it wasn’t celebration so much as solidarity?

I’m not referring to the Provisional IRA, I’m talking about the Official IRA and the war of independence. In modern terminology that would be described as terrorism. Terrorism that resulted in the establishment of the Irish statehood.

If the argument is that recognising statehood for a state formed in the midst of terrorism is rewarding or supporting that terrorism then someone needs to explain why that shouldn’t extend to other states.

The last elections in Palestine were in 2006. 75% of population is under 25 years old and would not have been able to vote at that point.

Because Great Britain invaded Ireland and occupied it. Like it did countless other countries.

So of course Ireland should have been recognised as an official state. Which it always would had been before and would have remained had Great Britanian kept out of it!

Even Israel themselves (and provided no evidence for this ) that Hamas was stealing 15-25% of aid. They then initiated a complete blockade around 6 months ago to prevent this. USAID said they found no evidence of mass stealing by Hamas either.

Now do I believe Hamas are siphoning aid, absolutely.
Do I believe Israel have prevented aid coming into Gaza, killed aid workers, prevented safe passage of aid (not to mention the murder of 2000 of those going to aid sites) also absolutely.