Starmer’s support for Palestine

from the River to the Sea

Ah, that well known anti-Semitic phrase. So you want Palestine state to be recognised, but want Israel wiped out. The irony of your bigoted comment….

... Have you entirely forgotten the Good Friday agreement? Truth and reconciliation has been proven to be more effective in diplomatic situations like this.

... Have you also forgotten how the state of Israel was founded? It followed Zionist terrorist attacks in British-controlled Palestine. Following the UK leaving India, and given the increasing attacks by militant Zionist groups of British citizens and soldiers - the UK withdrew. Within days both the US and Russia recognised Israel.

Yep. But to promote their ‘cause’. Now going up in celebration that our PM has sold his soul to the devil to appease the lefties in his party.

BBC dont have much choice since Israel won't allow reporters into Gaza to observe for themselves. They do always make it clear where the information is coming from.

I'm strongly against Israel's actions now (genuinely, in a world without the US's unwavering support, I'd support military action against Israel in current circumstances) but I do agree that anti-Zionism is anti-semitism. You're probably having a disconnect in terminology.

For most people, around the world, "Zionism" has a broad meaning - including those who simply believe Israel should continue to exist, as a Jewish state. The British left uses a much narrower meaning (only encapsulating those who support further expansion and violence).

I'm not Jewish, but am a Zionist in that I think a Jewish state is necessary for the safety of the Jewish people (I don't love there being an ethno-state in concept, but think its needed in practice). Anti-Zionism, to most, calls for the dismantling of the Jewish state which, realistically, likely ends in genocide of the Jewish people (or at least, widespread violence against them).

The British left (of which I am one), unfortunately, does have a profound issue with Antisemitism. That doesn't excuse Israel's actions, though, which are atrocious. It's acting as a terrorist state.

Actually it is the UN and every civilised nation in the world that insists that there is genocide. Because in law Israel is committing genocide. It's not "an agenda". It is a fact. Israel is being held to account for that fact because it wishes to be part of an international community that sets standards of behaviour. It can stop being part of that international community any time it wants. With the consequences that entails.

On the other hand, if you want to hold Palestine to those standards- and I'm sure they'd be happy with that - then something needs to happen first. They need to be a state. And the sooner that happens, the sooner they can be held to the standards that Israel is ignoring.

Simples...

Hamas agreed to the last ceasefire which led to the release of the hostages

And yet at the same time constantly spouting stuff like this;

Senior Hamas leader Khalil al-Hayya praised the October 7 massacre as a major achievement that would be taught to future generations of Palestinians with pride, while touting the ceasefire-hostage deal that was announced shortly before he spoke Wednesday as a “historic moment.”

The deadliest slaughter of Jews in a single day since the Holocaust was a “military accomplishment” and “a source of pride for our people… to be passed down from generation to generation,” al-Hayya said.

Hamas’s top negotiator in the ceasefire and hostage talks said despite suing for an end to the war, the group would continue to pursue Israel’s destruction, looking toward Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa Mosque as a “compass.”

“Our people will expel the occupation from our land and from Jerusalem at the earliest time possible,” said al-Hayya.

“Our enemy will never see a moment of weakness from us,” he added.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-leader-touts-ceasefire-as-a-defeat-for-israel-while-hailing-oct-7-atrocities/

The recognition is a little too late and not enough. Sanctions, full arms embargo and Hotoveley needs to be expelled.

Depends what you mean by anti-zionism though.

Anti settlements and border expansion? Or against the right of the state of Israel to exist to begin with?

Great, we could become like Lebanon but with shit weather.

At the start of recent hostiles I was very Israel sympathetic.

That has since completely eroded. Yes, it still has the right to exist, but its current government is no better than Hamas.

And it isnt even just about Palestine anymore. Israel is breaching international law with impunity.

If it didn't have the US playing enabler, I'd support military action against Israel.

Because that's how they wage war. They are often accused of using their own people as human shields but actually they use their own people as cannon fodder and sacrificial lambs, except it's not a sacrifice to them. No Palestinian death toll is too high for them if it means they can kill Israelis or turn the international community on Israel.

They do not give a shit about their own people, they just hate Jews. They are a death cult.

The majority of the people protesting just want the genocide to stop. No hidden agenda.

Do you not see how your very statement has an agenda.

You want the genocide to stop.

Which immediately is political by describing it as genocide, not killings (which may or not be a byproduct of a war against hamas), or starvation (which may or not be a function of Hamas having previously appropriated and controlled aid to the people).

And does not include anything about IDF soldiers dying, or hostages suffering.

Etc.

You cannot see how heavily you are invested in the agenda that this is all Israel's fault and somehow Hamas are.not complicit in what you insist is genocide.

And China. They are wiping out the Uyghurs. Can’t see anyone protecting for them.

Ooh yes. And handing over the hostages Hamas are still torturing. I mean,surely that would be a start to showing Hamas were more than terrorists wouldn’t it?

I have. She told me that anti Zionism was antisemitism, then called me racist and a hypocrite for being in support of the Palestinians who are suffering. She is a former friend- emphasis on the word former.

So is the Myanamar military being held to account for the massacre of the Rohingya Muslims?

How about Darfur, Mali, Yemen, Burkina Faso or Cameroon ?

Or is it a case of "no Jews, no news"?

I completely agree (apart from the bit about Starmer, I'm reserving judgment on that). As much as I feel the actions of Israel in Gaza are disproportionate I do think it was entirely predictable that this would be the response to the attack on October 7th. Hamas provoked the response and I will never understand why.

I am appalled that the UK govt has taken this action - there are hostages still held , this is giving into a terrorist group. I think it is totally wrong and send out the wrong message.

One thing I’ve realised is many random Mumsnetters spew hateful inaccurate propaganda every time Palestine is mentioned, and suddenly become timid about how little old Israel is only defending itself (yes, like the video I saw yesterday of another toddler mutilated by Israeli bombs and snipers).

Israel has committed war crimes and that is a fact.

Palestine deserves to be recognised (and has been for much longer than Israel, just Starmer acting like he’s done something really brave when in reality it’s too little too late).

Recognising Palestine is not enough. Stopping the genocide should be the priority.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o.amp

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds

https://theconversation.com/is-israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-we-asked-5-legal-and-genocide-experts-how-to-interpret-the-violence-262688

www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/28/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-say-israel-based-human-rights-groups

Funny how history is wheeled out to defend Israel, but rubbished for everyone else. I won't be lectured on Irish history by someone with no knowledge of it. But I am aware that the IDF are not civilians- thanks to their governments orders they are murderers.

What the IRA eventually became was a product of the oppression of the Irish, by an English government who did everything they could to wipe out their language, their culture, and - if they would not submit - their lives, and targeted innocent civilians in that. Terrorists are not born. They are made. The English government made Irish terrorists. The Israeli government has made Palestinian terrorists. It continues to make them.

@Kpo58 "How does a two state solution realistically work if the other side is systematically stealing your land and displacing your people?"

In 1949 Jordan annexed the West bank without a murmur from the international community.
Can you explain why Jordan got a free pass on this but Israel doesn't ?

they are not rewarding terrorism. They are trying to do something to stop the horrific killing and dying of an entire people.

In my opinion it's too little too late.They should have withdrawn support from Netanyahu's rogue government long ago before Netanyahu and co thought they could do whatever the hell they want to whomever they want. They already have blood on their hands as do all of us who have just watched complacently too scared to speak up in case we get accused of anti semititism.

I want all the best for the people of Israel, many of whom I am sure are as horrified by the scale of atrocities as the rest of us but anyone still supporting the actions of the Israeli government is devoid of any humanity.