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Original poster

Irresponsible and unhelpful article about baby’s death?

160 replies

NET145 · 21/09/2025 06:12

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c864g0evz9jo.amp

I am genuinely very confused about this article and would appreciate if someone could shed light so we can learn from it.

It says that the mother “had failed to notice her daughter's deterioration” and this presumably led to the baby’s tragic death. But I have no idea what the signs of deterioration would have been? As a new mum maybe it is not as obvious to me as it might be for others.

There seems to be great emphasis on the alcohol and tobacco consumption, but nothing to say that this directly impacted - e.g. baby someone fallen on or got hold of cigarettes so it’s unclear why this is actually relevant? Clearly it is not a crime have booze and fags, so what exactly has happened here?

It seems like there is some fairly crucial information missing? AIBU to think this type of article is alarming enough to raise anxiety levels but too vague to actually help inform or equip parents and careers. And also stigmatises a mother who, other than drink and smoke, does not explicitly seem to have done something harmful. If she has missed some critical signs of declining health then we really need to know what they were!

A red-brick court building which has ramp access to the left hand side and step access to the right hand side. There are blue railings, and trees either side of the building.

Drunk mother guilty of cruelty after child's death in Stoke-on-Trent - BBC News

Natasha Birks was two and a half times above the drink-drive limit while looking after her baby.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c864g0evz9jo.amp

OP posts:
LadyGreyandlemoncurd · 21/09/2025 06:37

The article states that she didn’t cause or foresee the child’s death which is why she was convicted on child cruelty rather than murder/manslaughter.

However, the references to alcohol and going outside to smoke are because she wasn’t supervising the child properly or in a fit state to notice and deal with any issues. Again, she didn’t directly cause the child’s death but she had a duty of care to look after her child and she didn’t do that because she was too intoxicated and repeatedly left the house to smoke (sadly the child died which meant her behaviour was investigated).

It’s unclear from the article why the child died and whether there would have been signs of deterioration that she could have noticed if she’d been sober and supervising properly (the lack of causation is probably why she wasn’t charged with manslaughter). Sadly sometimes there aren’t always signs that a child is deteriorating (e.g. SIDs), but sometimes there are (e.g. when the child is unwell, crying/distressed etc) and she wasn’t in a fit state to notice, monitor or address any problems.
She failed to notice that the child didn’t wake up in the morning and she didn’t properly check on her during the night- the signs of rigor mortis means the child had been dead for some time before her mother noticed. If there had been an issue and the child could have been saved then the mother wouldn’t have known.

Original poster
NET145 · 21/09/2025 06:37

queenmeadhbh · 21/09/2025 06:19

Being too drunk to look after your 5 month old to the point you do not realise they have not woken in the morning IS harmful though. If a
sober mother did the same it would also be neglect but in this case the alcohol is a crucial factor in neglect.
i presume the critical signs of serious illness will be the same as they are for any critical illness in a baby - lethargy/struggling to breathe/unresponsiveness/mottled or blue colour etc…

That helpful to understand the signs - what was the illness that caused the death then do you reckon?

OP posts:
Original poster
NET145 · 21/09/2025 06:36

Whenthetimeisright · 21/09/2025 06:19

Are you seriously trying to excuse her behaviour?

err no

OP posts:
Original poster
NET145 · 21/09/2025 06:34

Can anyone actually identify what the cause of death was here? That’s my question, to make it simple

OP posts:
Original poster
NET145 · 21/09/2025 06:33

I am not excusing anything. I am asking what CAUSED the death! Drinking booze and having fags alone does not cause a baby to die? Was it therefore SIDS!
My issue is with the vagueness of the article, I am not trying excuse or criticise the mother in any way - I can’t because I don’t understand exactly what happened due to the lack of detail!

OP posts:
WatchingTheDetective · 21/09/2025 06:29

I don't think anyone is suggesting that if the baby was looked after properly that she would've died.

Iocainepowder · 21/09/2025 06:27

What the actual fuck are you on about op

McSpoot · 21/09/2025 06:24

This is the second thread this weekend trying to excuse what the mother did. Crazy.

queenmeadhbh · 21/09/2025 06:19

Being too drunk to look after your 5 month old to the point you do not realise they have not woken in the morning IS harmful though. If a
sober mother did the same it would also be neglect but in this case the alcohol is a crucial factor in neglect.
i presume the critical signs of serious illness will be the same as they are for any critical illness in a baby - lethargy/struggling to breathe/unresponsiveness/mottled or blue colour etc…

Whenthetimeisright · 21/09/2025 06:19

Are you seriously trying to excuse her behaviour?

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