Irresponsible and unhelpful article about baby’s death?

It states in the article that the baby was left on the sofa after the last bottle and not checked on (other than peering through the door from afar). OP says the article is unfair and irresponsible which just isn’t the case. It’s a case of child neglect but OP thinks stigmatising the mum is unfair… but she neglected her child and the child died alone.

There's a huge difference in having a few drinks when the the kids are in bed
To leaving a 5 month old baby in an unsafe sleeping place and then only checking on them briefly from the doorway and not feeding them for 14 hours whilst you drink vodka .

No, I don't work in the field but there is enough common knowledges around this to state that the threshold for ss engagement is staggeringly high and that allowing your infant to sleep on the couch is legal, despite being highly discouraged for its risky outcomes.

I agree, it's likely that there is far more to it than the information in the article suggests. I'm just pushing back on the idea that it is plainly obvious why the defendant met the threshold of criminality and that the op is being tactically naive or defensive because of her own behaviour.

I think the OP is getting a slightly unfair pasting here.

I don't think she is trying to excuse what the mother did. I do feel there is information missing from the BBC article. Was the child left on a sofa? Not checked on at all after her last bottle?

I understand we have no right to be privvy to this information but let's face it how many parents do this (to a lesser degree) every weekend? Kids in bed, let have a few drinks?

(I'm teetotal before anyone wonders)

@Upstartled I don't work in the field, and perhaps you do. I guess that a lot depends on the specific case and the effects of the behaviour in question - even if it were within recommended limits, or would be fine in another context or at another time.

We can find the College of Policing 'Authorised Professional Practice' definition of child cruelty here.

Which points us to the legislation: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/23-24/12/section/1

I gather the threshold is pretty high for the CPS to take a case forward. There may have been additional factors that haven't been reported, and other indicators of neglect.

If you genuinely are an anxious mum OP, then follow safe sleep guidelines.

Do not leave a 5 month old (!!!) on a sofa to sleep. Definitely not unattended.
Don't be so incapacitated that you cannot check your child when you go up to bed.
Don't get so drunk that you don't check your child when you wake up in the morning.
And don't be so hung over that you leave it until the baby has starts to develop rigor mortis before contacting help.

It is really, really despicable behaviour from this mother. There can be no excuse. You do not leave a 5 month old unattended without a sober, responsible guardian. Full stop.

I don’t think people are minimising. I think they are questioning what constitutes neglect, because in the absence of knowing why the baby died and whether earlier intervention would have helped (I.e. baby was sick rather than died suddenly) than there’s a strong focus on the fact that the baby was put to sleep on a sofa and as others have commented that is not a criminal offence in these circumstances (co-sleeping with a baby when under influence is).

so where is the bar?

Various govt advice is baby in a cot, breastfed, no solids until 6mth, vaccinate, etc is the argument that not following guidance is neglect? Or only in conjunction with drinking?

It’s a tragic case.

Yes, I think that some defensiveness may be about that. I barely drink, even at Christmas and never drank at all when the kids were little, so that's not informing my opinion.

But I do think it that it's important to see the argument for criminality here in this case - with the laws as they exist at the moment.

And I think there's another wider argument to be had about whether we should lower the bar of what we consider criminally neglectful parenting.

This is such a sad case - a beautiful child died. I hope that the mother is repairing her life and being the best mother she can to her other child.

Besides the advice on sleeping in the same room for six months, and being in a fit state to care for a small baby - the general advice is that we shouldn't be having more than 2-3 units a day, no more than 14 a week, and that more than 6 units in a short session is a binge.

Britain is known for having really high rates of binge drinking among women. The alcohol industry has done a lot over the past 30 years to normalise daily drinking among women as something we deserve, that we need to do to relax or be sociable. It's so dangerous.

I wonder whether this case has touched a nerve because having a few birthday drinks at home with a young baby is normal. And it's probably the default option unless you follow a particular religion seriously, or are in athletic training.

Life is stressful, and lonely, and other treats often seem so expensive or hard work.

It's hard for us to make better choices on our own. And really quite easy for people to slide into drinking well over recommended limits while thinking that they're doing fine.

Yes, but while allowing your child to sleep on the couch is highly frowned upon it is not illegal. So the criminality here speaks of the broader neglect - which if you were only to read the article seems to be the crime of being the kind of neglectful that barely raises an eyebrow of social services.

And also stigmatises a mother who, other than drink and smoke, does not explicitly seem to have done something harmful.

…you don’t think getting absolutely smashed out of your face, leave you baby alone on a sofa for 14 hours, is harmful?

She was convicted of child cruelty, not of actually causing the poor baby’s death. There were probably quite obvious signs that the children were not being cared for. The poor baby had rigor mortis so had been dead for a while before she even noticed. I imagine the poor soul also had bad nappy rash if she was being left alone for that long. Why was she even on the sofa? Did she not have a moses basket or cot? Leaving a baby on the sofa alone is dangerous as it is not a firm, flat, waterproof surface, and is not clear. Most sofas have a slight incline, which babies can roll into and then struggle to roll themselves back, so can suffocate. Falling asleep on the sofa with your baby raises the risk of SIDS by 50 times more than co sleeping in a bed.

The lullaby trust has some good advice about safe sleep:

Safer sleep for babies: the basics
Following this advice for every sleep, day and night, reduces the risk of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS, previously known as cot death). Our safer sleep advice has saved the lives of over 30,000 babies since 1991.
The safest place for a baby to sleep is in their own clear, flat, firm separate sleep space (e.g. a cot or Moses basket) in the same room as you.

1. Lie your baby on their back.
2. Keep their cot clear.
3. Use a firm, flat, waterproof mattress.
4. Keep baby smoke-free.
5. Avoid your baby getting too hot.
6. Sleep your baby in the same room as you for at least the first six months.

https://www.lullabytrust.org.uk/baby-safety/safer-sleep-information/safer-sleep-overview/

Doesn’t sound as if any of those six bits of advice were implemented by the mother in this case, potentially the baby may have suddenly died regardless, but seems likely that a combination of the risk factors contributed to her dying from SIDS.

I'd hope it'd only be freaking you out for 30 seconds till you googled proper resources (like several PPs have posted) and saw that this isn't the case. It's only an issue if you take your childcare advice from perceived implied messages in news reports about a random court case. I know we're all extra sensitive with newborns, but to get freaked out from reading such things into an article like this is OTT. The takeaway is not to get pissed and ignore your baby. Don't overthink.

"I agree it probably has triggered concerns in mums to be or new mothers, because it implies mothers should get up intermittently through the night to check on a sleeping baby, when that’s not necessarily needed"

Yeah - this what would be freaking me out

Also OP the current advice is that baby sleeps in the same room as you are in until at least 6 months. The Mum in this case did not have the baby in the same room as her for the whole of the night.

If you want some information on safely sleep for your baby the Basis website is very good.

Why does a BBC news article need to be your source of education around baby health? Strange.

She laid her baby on the sofa after feeding. Baby could have choked on milk/vomit or rolled over, unable to lift its head. Either was baby has either suffocated on its own vomit or as a result of it being face down. She clearly wasn't sat next to baby keeping an eye on her. Definitely wasn't in close proximity.

Mother failed to properly check on baby. Mum observed from a distance. She was clearly blazay about baby and was more interested in vodka and going outside to smoke.

She didn't directly kill baby, but she failed to check on her properly = failed to see baby had deteriorated. If she'd gone up to baby, she'd have noticed baby choking or babies mouth/lips would have gone blue/black. This is a sign that baby wasn't breathing/in distress.

Basically she's fed baby, then walked away allowing her poor baby to die whilst she drank and smoked.

It gives the detail needed. Drunk mum fed a baby to sleep and then left her on a sofa unattended, which is an unsafe place to put a baby to sleep, and then didn’t check on her properly at all. Baby may have choked throwing milk back up, or turned sideways to the back of the couch and suffocated etc, we don’t need those grim details. Mum neglected baby and didn’t notice baby deteriorate - so they clearly felt she missed opportunities to make her baby safer. It’s a case of child cruelty and neglect - you don’t need the post mortem report.

how would I know? What’s the value in trying to guess? A five month old was left unsupervised in an unsafe environment with no food or water for over 12 hours. So many risks and possibilities for death, and that’s not even taking into account the baby’s condition before that night, given that the mother has demonstrated neglectful behaviours.

there is something odd in your attitude that a) the mother’s neglect is unconnected to the baby’s death and b) the public should be told the cause of death as a learning opportunity.

the learning opportunities are clear: follow safe sleep guidance (never mind the sofa, the baby should not be sleeping alone at that age because sleeping alone under 6 months increases SIDS risk) and do not get paralytic drunk when you are responsible for a baby. Your focus on signs of illness and distress in a baby is unneeded because if you are sober and present, you will notice that your baby is unwell. That’s the whole point.

The baby may have died anyway however,none of these things helped.
Leaving a 5 month old baby asleep on the sofa
Not checking on them properly for many hours
Drinking to excess
Going out frequently for a cigarette
The minimising on here is ridiculous.

I doubt a Reporter was even in Court. The article looks as though it’s been taken from this page published by the CPS and the photo is just a stock photo of the Court rather than a specific photo of the Defendant.

Can’t believe that you think being drinking when in charge of a baby isn’t an issue!!!!
if she was sober she would have been able to use her brain!

I’m not agreeing with what the mum did at all but legally where is the line drawn. If a baby dies of sids and is in a cot in the next room to we charge the parents with neglect because guidance says they should be in the same room?

even if they’re sober? You could argue it’s still neglect. What if they’ve had one glass of wine, or two? Or are we only fussed if it’s vodka? I think the alcohol is a red herring to be honest. As I said earlier if your baby sadly dies in the Night, you being a knackered parent may not wake till much later on in the morning. That’s certainly the case with my ex colleague who lost a baby in such circumstances.

For all anyone knows this baby could have died anyway regardless of where it had gone to sleep and certainly regardless of the mum’s alcohol intake. So they’d certainly never have proven manslaughter (someone mentioned this)

You do know this is just a news report not a transcript of the full case as it unfolded? I've not RTFT but if you're basing all this on what's reported on that BBC link it's bizarre to assume that it's covered everything that was established and known to the court and hence is a bad faith prosecution. Journalists tell the story from a news angle, not to give a comprehensive overview of all the info.

Where do you see the OP defending the parent? Am I even reading the same thread?

If you follow basic SIDS guidelines you'll be doing everything you can to keep your baby safe without needing to know the prurient details of someone else's tragedy