Do your strict British schools get good academic results?

Sure, but trust me, if you have a relaxed school where kids don't have to be silent in the corridors and march to their next lesson and aren't drilled to within an inch of their lives to follow the teacher's instructions in lessons then you will be losing learning time.

And clearly they think that being strict on uniform feeds into that whole ethos.

Bigotry of low expectations is real, but it's too easy to conflate things when you don't have the ability to control all the variables. Do you think a child from a chaotic home where no-one has the ability to keep track of school progress is going to just flourish in Michaela or similar? 7 hours a day, 190 days a year is only so much. One of the most important elements isn't merely school strictness. It's coordination between home and school. It's more than a bit troubling to read these suggestions that children from naice middle class suburban families just don't need such strict expectations.

That’s about disruption which is a totally different thing. You could have a very relaxed school which doesn’t have much disruption.
Things like detention for wearing the uniform slightly incorrectly aren’t really related to lost learning time either.

While I know that there certainly are poor people in Brent, as with any London borough, and Brent is very ethnically diverse, the majority are not poor. Once you get out of the commercial centre of Wembley where the school is located, the surrounding area is pretty much Metroland. Interestingly, the number 12 school for value added on the table helpfully linked above, is also in Wembley. However, if the children at Michaela are poor, given their ability on arrival, their primary schools are doing a pretty good job.

Yes but at what cost. Exam results are not the only thing that children should be getting from school.

Are the schools you've heard about just saying they are the top 5 in the county, or local authority, rather thank the country? Without local, knowledge, it would be very hard to work out where most of these schools are! I have only managed to work out that at least 10 out of the top 20 are in greater London.

@Croakymccroakyvoice Got the pens for later then! What’s wrong with providing the odd pen? Schools have highly paid assistant heads. A few pens pales into insignificance to keep the peace.

A lot of kids at private have sat SATs, as they come from state primaries although I understand maybe not enough not to skew figures, although presumably a fair few in super selective State have been to prep schools?

The issue is they conflate Value Added and say it is Progress 8. Undoubtedly the statisticians would have a field day with these but I'm just pointing out that it isn't exactly a fair playing field if the whole country isn't involved - you'll have plenty moving between the two for various reasons and no mention of tutoring at all.

Michaela has 31.9% disadvantaged kids while the national average is 27.3%

Michaela is really not in middle class suburbs though it it?! So that can’t be the reason!

lots of strict schools are in poor areas eg Newham and get good results.

Private schools don't have progress 8 because they don't sit SATs and it's a measure of progress from KS2 SATs to GCSEs.

IGCSEs also don't count for progress 8.

Yup, none of the schools where I've heard they are in the top 5 are listed in the highest here. Also several conflating "Value Added" with Progress 8 and saying the same. Looking at a mix of state and independent/privates these terms do get thrown about as shorthand for "best teachers".

https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/schools-by-type?step=default&table=schools&region=all-england&for=secondary

And as an aside, the DofE site doesn't appear to have any Independent or Private schools to compare.
AI tells me the top 5 in the UK are not, in fact, in Kent.

I feel like the problem is that every school is so differnet with differnet demographics. It is hard to say if the strict school getting result is better because they are strict or because it is in a middle class suburbs. Also what is considered strict?

We also tend to think what is familiar to us is the best. I'm Finnish and my partner is british. I'm looking at the schools with a shock and horror and my partner is like "yeah, thats how it is" and we are both convinced what is familiar to us, is the best.

Yes, I’m in total agreement.

If there aren't 3 in the top 5 in Kent then I can state with some confidence there's some confusion between definitions or ranking being presented to parents.

This shows the soft bigotry of low expectations.

Poor people are perfectly capable of behaving well. Look at Micheala school. It is in Brent! The kids are generally poor.

Progress 8 scores are publicly available and really easy to find on D of E website.

Is there a league table of these schools that are ranked as 1st 2nd 3rd for progress 8? I've been to at least 3 open days where they all state they are in the top 5 in one County, so I do take that with a pinch of salt.

Yes, no matter how 'excellent' the school, it may not suit your child.

Similar happened in my school once. Kid was escorted out by the police.

It's nearly all serial miscreants in my school. About 5 or 6 in every class. Getting the pen back intact is 50:50 often they come back dismantled, or more accurately they are left on the desk that way. I've seen a child, directed to borrow a pen from a tray, pick up one to use, and put three more in their pocket.

Yes but that’s not really an achievement as grammar schools already select for the most academic.
A grade 8 from a grammar cannot be compared to a grade 8 from the secondary modern in the same area (if parents are honest with themselves they would admit that their grammar child would not have got the same results at a bog-standard comp).

I think the 2 crucial issues to enable a school to get good results are:

• stopping applications from families who are not supportive of their children’s education or of the school by spelling out the deal clearly: if you come here, you sign up to the rules.

• eliminating classroom disruption which robs many working class children of educational opportunities.