To think working parents get more workplace sympathy than single, childfree staff who are expected to pick up the slack?

The irony in my case is that I lost a pregnancy after being punched in the stomach by someone else's child. (I've told the story elsewhere on these boards.)

I was a teacher for 40 years, doing "the hard work" of educating other people's children whilst having none of my own.

I've been trying not to come back to this thread, but I'll add this. I've referred above to the accommodations given to parents when none were given to carers.

I've seen at least one poster commenting that being a parent is really difficult, so accommodations are warranted.

You never know what life is going to throw at you. There will likely be times in life when everyone needs a form of accommodation. Unless - God forbid - a child is born with or acquires a disability, the expectation is that children become more independent as they grow older.

If you find yourself becoming a carer, then life simply becomes harder as time progresses and you and the person[s] you care for become older.

I was 36 when my mother sustained her first spinal fractures courtesy of osteoporosis. She and my dad lived independently for a good while, but needed a lot of input from me. I was 49 when my husband needed his triple bypass and 51 when he had his stroke.

I've mentioned a case above where I was forbidden from giving a mother of 4 period 1 classes because she had to get her children up and to primary school in the morning. (Incredibly, there was also pressure put on me to do reports and parents' evenings for her. Looking back, I can scarcely believe it. I point blank refused to do the reports. I agreed to fit in some parental interviews in any spaces that I had on parents' evenings.)

This was at a time when I was helping my mum's carer to get her up each morning and then getting my husband up and fed before leaving for work.

My mum and my husband became weaker as time progressed. Mum died when I was 55. When I was 58, I finally gave up my job. I had cut to a 4 day week, but was getting the same amount of work for less money and found myself staying on to 7.30 one Thursday night to clear my admin work. Got home and DH had scalded himself making coffee.

I was refused a job share and quit completely. At that time in my LA, a parent had rights with regard to job shares. (That was one of the reasons that they were falling over themselves to accommodate the mother of 4 - she'd initially been refused the hours that she wanted and had complained.)

However, there were all the unwritten accommodations as well - the time off for nativity plays and so on.

I don't really begrudge those, but - as I've said - there are times in life where everyone needs a bit of help.

ETA As I think I mentioned previously, the father of the 4 children was on the SLT in another school. I find it bewildering that 2 adults with a very good income (based on the father's wage) had difficulty in organising wrap-around care for their children).

Define "when life is hard".

When ds had chickenpox when he was 1 it would have been unreasonable for me to take him to his childminder and spread it. Ditto when he was vomiting, so yes, I had to take a day off and my colleagues had to cover my classes or supply had to be called in.

Same if my child free colleagues had to be off because of illness, so swings and roundabouts.

In fact, I have a childfree colleague now, who is often off for medical reasons, as well as two instances of bereavement, so all legitimate.

Her request for wfh once a week has been approved as well as taking annual leave during term time. If that isn't beimg sympathetic and offering her flexibility, then what is? She's excellent at her job and I know she puts the hours in, so no resentment from me or others at all.

The thing is when you have kids (and I don’t yet) there are certain things beyond your control and you do have a responsibility towards them.

You can’t leave a small child at home so they need childcare, but your childcare shuts at 6pm and hits you with a massive fine if you are late; maybe your child has thrown up at nursery, you obviously can’t leave them there so you have to leave work to go and get them. Childcare providers are varied in hours and flexibility and in some areas there are limited options so it’s not as simple as “just find something that is open longer”, it may simply not exist.

Being a parent, although most people do it because they WANT children and that’s it, is a social responsibility. We need people to have children to continue society. So therefore we need to make like easier for parents.

This doesn’t mean you can take the piss and at my work you are still expected to get your tasks done. But if you need a bit of flex to accommodate your family then that’s fine, and as a child free person I am happy to give it to you. This doesn’t mean I am doing more than my allotted share, it just means that sometimes we have to be kind to other people - and when I wanted to go with my husband to a hospital appointment in the middle of the day that he theoretically could have gone to alone, nobody minded that either.

TBF, many people have directly/repeatedly experienced things like parents believing they get priority on summer and Christmas annual leave because they "deserve" it more. And weak managers enable this, which perpetuates the issue.

And like it or not, having children IS a choice that is not relevant to your employment or employer. I have two working parents (babies/toddler ages) in my own team and they get the same flexibility and consideration as the non-parents, because the demands, emergencies and other random issues that crop up are equally valid and important to the person they affect.

Maybe at your workplace but that didn’t happen at mine. I was childfree at the time. I left after having children because the job wouldn’t be a great fit with our family life.

In my experience, workplaces either give zero slack to anyone, or they are understanding of a variety of personal circumstances.

In my experience also, parents are often working as hard as anyone else, but unseen hours. E.g. thinking of a project where everyone was in the office to 9pm, except the woman with a young child. However when we were logging off at 9pm, she was logging back on and working until midnight.

But frankly, no one should be facing pressure to work beyond their contracted hours routinely.

I work in HR and have found the majority of employers to be incredibly understanding (mainly since Covid) of ALL peoples work-life balance and offer flex to all, regardless of parental status. There is much more emphasis on wellbeing and mental health. Perhaps I’ve been lucky. But if people aren’t happy in their work situation, they should seek another.

Definitely. That's because mostly people are thinking of the child in the scenario, who is ill and needs their parent, or wants their parent to see them in their play or be there on Christmas Day, so the concession to the parent is due to adults being largely predisposed to think the happiness and welfare of children is a priority.
Its exactly the same as any other 'perks' people with children benefit from, extra benefits, higher places on housing lists. It's aimed at children, and their parents are indirect beneficiaries.

Agreed. And that poster seems to have forgotten that those who can’t have children nevertheless support the lives of other people’s children.

I think it's brilliant that some (but sadly not enough) employers are genuinely flexible towards parents and try to accommodate their needs. All companies should be offering part time or job share options and support for last minute leave requests etc. for parents (and carers, for that matter) in emergencies.
However, in my last job everyone in my team bar me had childcare responsibilities and finished at two. As our team looked after a very busy public phone line, 9 to 5, I was the only one who covered the phones later in the day, which meant I could never take advantage of the company's Flexi policy and leave early.
It feels like good employers (I'm in the CS) do sometimes overlook business needs and the full time workers can bear the brunt. But of course that's not always the case.

You sound utterly utterly insufferable and without any compassion for someone who is struggling tonight

Odd over dramatic response. It’s not all about you. Looking at it coldly and economically we all do rely on there being a next generation. Surely it makes sense to offer some support to those ensuring there is a next generation?

No, maybe staff with very young children as unavoidable issues crop up with small children.
I don't mind someone needing leeway once they pull their weight.
Ime it's probably the male members of staff who get away with more, ignoring the finer details.
You will find good and not so good workers across society with or without children.

Fucking horrible post, I am infertile shall I just kill
myself now ?

I previously worked somewhere that non-parents were banned from taking leave during the summer holidays.

That really pissed me off.

I must say your boss sounds delightful!

I don’t envy you working under such a controlling person.

I give up

Yes so your point doesn't make sense

EXACTLY

But by that logic no one asks to be born and it's only because of parents we're dumped on this planet and forced to care about any of this in the first place.

@JenniferBooth if every parent had children at the same point in time then you might have a point, but they don't it's a continuum so as one parent needs flexibility another (parent or parent to be) is available to be more flexible because people don't all have children at the same time

Im just pointing out it doesnt end when Graces children get older.

But if you have to collect kids from nursery etc. and genuinely can’t get there in time without leaving a bit early and flexing hours, you have to. It’s not an option to just leave the kids - these are small human beings who can’t be left alone! It’s not really a choice!

DH had to go to work 30mins late last week as I was travelling with work so couldn’t do school run I usually do to drop kids at breakfast club. His employer kept saying “oh we’ll see if that’s ok and let you know” but never did confirm despite chasing. Well, when the morning arrived guess where DH was - at home doing school run. Because what other choice does he have (we do use breakfast club already, so it’s not like we aren’t already using all the available other options!)

So whilst it might seem like lots of favourable treatment and flexibility….. it’s not really a choice. Kids need caring for and you can’t exactly just decide they can fend for themselves whilst you finish off a work report in case your colleagues think you’re slacking! IME parents end up working such late hours in the evening to ensure they’re not seen as slacking tbh.

@JenniferBooth so what about the time before they were working parents the individual company they work for at that point is irrelevant, people move companies, they are still working and contributing (and working more than parents according to the trouble makers)