Backlash against Trans women

Brilliant article. Many of us have been on similar journeys with this topic.

Because if you run a single sex service these men are likely to target you, to set put to get you closed down if you say no to them. They have absolutely no bounds, no shame and nobody to tell them to desist

For almost a decade we have had 2 individuals contact our local and national funding providers and deluge them with accusations of discriminatory behaviour, our funding was halved for more than 5 years

One threatened, is still threatening, to publish our address if we don't hand over part of our service to him, including all of our confidential data... he has no experience or ability to run the service

We have to set aside a huge amount of money to counter repeated legal challenges, have spent 10s of thousands defending pir service

We are a small, rural, independent DV service. We have a female centre, a male centre and a specific trans services with specifically trained staff and trans specific medical and MH networking

These men ONLY want access to our female centre

Oddly trans identified women understand why we don't allow them access to our women's spaces and are very happy to access the specific services we offer

We aren't the only example of this. We now think that about 8 years ago there was a concerted effort to identify and target similar services nationally. It is an ongoing situation

This is an example of why many of us continue to push back against suggestions to 'be reasonable'

These men are not reasonable and they do irreparable harms

well, they are all the same in one extremely significant way : that they were born male, and will remain male until they die.

Personally, I don't think there's any need to go into whether men who identify as women behave worse than other men.

Keep it simple. Because they are men, they should be treated exactly the same as other men in the eyes of the eyes of the law. And that's exactly what the SC judgement clarified.

That is not a 'backlash', that is returning to a sensible approach that works for society at large.

And the reality is that cross dressing men have always been more unstable and more violent than normal men. Like others on the thread I have been in the company of these men and been totally creeped out by their behaviour and speech.

Jame Gumb (from the movie Silence of the Lambs) was a lot closer to the reality of cross dressing men than Kinky Boots. I loved the movie Kinky Boots btw - and he wasn't trying to pretend to be a woman, just an attractive cross dressing man.

We've always known that men who openly cross dress (tranvestites is the correct word) are far more likely to commit sexual and other criminal offences than other men. As well as being common sense - they are clearly mentally unstable and that means they are more dangerous - the stats bear this out.

So not only are cross dressing men (which is all that a "transwoman" is) men wearing their fetish out in public, they are actually provably and irrefutably more likely to be violent and/or sexual offenders tha normal men.

So no, there's no backlash. Just a return to normality, long overdue.

https: // fairplayforwomen dot com/ transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences/
https: // sex-matters dot org/ posts/prisons/evidence-and-data-on-transwomens-offending-rates/

I mean two things can be right at the same time.

He was weird to shoehorn trans women into the topic.

There is a significant degree of anti-trans sentiment and backlash against trans individuals (especially trans women.) One example you see is with Trump banning / pushing to ban Trans people from serving in the US military.

Of course some men can be vulnerable.

However, I would not have the ones in dresses top of the list of vulnerable males. I'd be much more worried about little boys, elderly men, men with disabilities and so on.

Yet no one has ever told women we need to budge over and give our spaces to these groups of vulnerable men.

So why is it being demanded for trans identifying men?

If they're being treated badly by men, in men's spaces, why are other men not being held accountable for that? Why is it being made women's problem?

Exactly. They made an unreasonable demand, and the “backlash” is that people won’t comply.

Except for a few honourable exceptions, trans women of almost any hue insist that we should see and refer to them as women. They assert a right therefore to live entirely "as women" going in and out of spaces in which women and girls are in a state of undress, taking part in women's categories in sports, using women's changing rooms etc. For almost 2 decades they have been building the myth that it's terrible not to participate in this fiction. And swathes of our institutions and corporates have bought this. Especially the police who seem to act as their private enforcement arm. So we have endless examples of organisations corkskrewing around to avoid mentioning mothers, groups throwing out women who say that men can't breast feed, death threats and job losses. And the ridiculousness of grown men and women solemnly putting their pronouns in their emails. Until we are able to have a civilised public discourse that accepts that trans women are men, without this being some terrible thing to say, then we are a very long way from a solution. Oh and a couple of minutes ago drag queens were just a few men who had a career in entertainment dressing in a slightly unpleasant exaggerated cartoon pastiche of women. Now they've become holy icons of something or other and it's unedifying.

Exactly this

Yes and it is so unhealthy here that members see a picture of a female sex abuser and imagine that they are really a man. I think it is all going way too far at this point. Mumsnet had to remove the thread so as not to start rumours that could jeopardise the trial!

I know right? It was the reality of a man pretending to be a woman that turned me into a TERF. Before I’d have chanted TWAW.

Backlash = women saying no.

They knew who the women were when they wanted us to stay at home, not have jobs or rights to vote.

Its only now they want something from us…our spaces and services, that they are gaslighting us that women are a social construct.

But what is a trans-drag performer. A man who lives as a women, dressing up as a man on stage. Drag self-recognition that is an act and for entertainment.

I have met plenty of men pretending to be women. Not one has convinced me that they are not all fucking creeps. Thanks.

But they’re all male

Snap, exactly this. I was such an ally that used to accompany him on nights out around Manchester canal street area, in those days there used to be a gatherings of trans on a Wednesday night. I met a number of his “friends” all trans. They referred to me as the “fish” at all times, followed me to the toilet, then joked that “I sounded like a cart horse when I peed” talked about sex most of the time, despite seeing I was uncomfortable, and worst, fucking worst of all, tried to pressure my relative to go to Thailand for the full operation. Thank fuck he didn’t, because he has well and truly desisted now, for over 25 years and is the biggest terf you’ll ever meet following his experiences. So don’t anyone dare tell me Ive never met a transwomen. Harmless my fucking foot.

Oh, and after relative desisted, these people spread the word that he’d killed himself amongst his former community.

I was coming here to say exactly this too.

If men feel vulnerable in some way, they need to campaign for their safe spaces - they don't get to take ours away. Our spaces are not up for grabs by any other person that feels unsafe.

Women have already been attacked and assaulted in spaces that were supposed to be safe, by trans identifying men that claimed a right to enter.

The law has now made it clear that anyone with a male body needs to stay out of female single sex spaces. Of course, some have predictably refused - which is the very height of male privilege.

Many women, including myself, would be happy to support any individual who wanted to campaign for a third space. But they don't get to claim ours just because they want to.

Women are not a shield.

And although society may not like to acknowledge this, our rights matter too.

I agree, except I am not a feminist. I would say it is women, not feminists, who are justifiably angry at all this.

The reason I am not a feminist is that the term has no meaning anymore. First and second wave feminists did huge things for women. Feminism then meant women reclaiming their societal, political and economic rights.

Third wave is where it started to get fuzzy and fourth wave is just a mess.

Feminists of today are a mishmash. Some have decided that you can be a feminist if you think all women should stay home looking after kids, you oppose abortion, you agree with abortion till full term, you think all women should be lesbians, you think all women should be separatists, you claim men are women, you think women who don't work for money are pointles, you claim prostitution is eMpOwErInG, you want Johns who use prostitutes criminalised, you say men cannot be feminists, you say men can be feminists - and more besides.

I am not goading, or trolling. I have seen women repeatedly espousing exactly those views and many more completely contradictory ones which simply cancel one another out - and all of them under the banner of feminism.

When there are no group goals, guidelines or facts that everyone agrees to and nothing that identifies you from anyone else, there is no group. So I am not a feminist as anyone at all can make that claim, including some very misogynistic people.

All we have done is listen to fucking trans identifying males for years, what about listening to fucking women. Men need to sort out their trans identifying men problem, not women. They should not be our problem.

Fuck them all (definitely not literally 🤮)

Yep, women do not exist as human shields for men against male violence or male abuse.