Is this racist

How does ‘under-representation’ get assessed? Genuine question.

Presumably there are complex calculations based on a combination of cultural factors, population, economic factors of all the relevant ethnic groups vs non ethnic group population plus other things like location and free will etc.

I wonder how well researched and analysed the targets and quotas are - they seemed a bit arbitrary in the RAF. Are they arbitrary in many other organisations too?

It would be interesting to know how much influence voices of said ethnic minorities have in the discussions. By the way POs have dismissed or ignored those voices in this thread, I’m guessing not much.

I didn't say that, did I? I just pointed out that Nurpia spoke on behalf of British Indians when there are many underrepresented groups. And it isn't just about ethnicity - it's also about socio-economic background. Whether a particular group should or shouldn't be included depends on the situation and one whether the workforce is reasonably representative of the population it's serving.

As for your point about the NHS:

• NHS England is being abolished
• When shortlisting, the people seeing the applications do not know whether or not the applicant is from an ethnic minority or not, because the process is blind. The only absolute criterion is that someone who is disabled and meets the criteria for the job must be interviewed.

Depends on whether it's an initiative operating in a sector where her ethnicity is under represented or not.

…the confused logic of identity grievance politics in action.

I have no idea who he is or of any conspiracies he may have been involved in. My paranoia may very well be driving out my common sense though

Is Nurpia the wrong type of minority group?

This is quite interesting. So should British Indians be included or excluded from initiatives discussed above?

That was to @pointythings btw.

It seems that the ‘righteous’ will find a way:

from the article:

NHS ‘discriminates’ against white job applicants in shortlists
Health services accused of ‘entrenching racial quotas’ with inclusive recruitment practices
Michael Searles, Health Correspondent.Daniel Martin, Deputy Political Editor.Tim Sigsworth.
14 April 2025 6:00am BST
NHS trusts “discriminate” against white job applicants by manipulating interview shortlists in favour of black and ethnic minority candidates, The Telegraph can reveal.
NHS England documents encourage the use of the Rooney Rule – an American football policy that makes it mandatory for ethnic minorities to be shortlisted for interviews if they apply.
Other so-called inclusive recruitment practices range from making managers justify hiring white British nationals to using race as a “tie-breaker”.
An NHS hospital in Liverpool admitted it had previously used “positive discrimination” to shortlist applicants from minority backgrounds.
The disclosure is the latest in a growing row over “racist” hiring policies being pursued by public sector services following a decision by West Yorkshire Police to temporarily block applications from white Britons.

Maybe you underestimate the determination of the ‘righteous’ to help certain groups of people whether or not they actually want to be helped. PPs in this thread say they don’t want to be helped in this patronising way - do their voices count? Or do the DEIers know better?

British Indians are not the only ethnic group in the UK... I tend to think about society as a whole, not just the niche bits that benefit me.

Anti white bad actors? Such hyperbole. Like Sir Michael Wigston you mean? The poster boy for affirmative action gone bad? If you really think this guy was involved in some anti white conspiracy (rather than simply poorly implementing a policy) then your paranoia is driving out your common sense.

In my experience they definitely do! I have Indian friends they are very hard working indeed. The proof is in the cars they drive!

Which Guardian article? I was just guessing you’d have one.

I’m determined that state sanctioned bias isn’t enforced on the recruitment process by DEI. Under the justification of equality of outcome by anti white bad actors.

A Google search tells me British Indians make more than the average white British

I will provide links later. But just to correct you, that Guardian article referenced research from the Sutton Trust, and the methodology is very simple. It has been used in many countries across deceased. Same application, equal qualifications and experience, only the name is different. Why do you question that? And why are you so determined that there is no bias in recruitment processes?

The research. Incoming link from a left wing think tank and a guardian opinion article?

The research suggests you are incorrect.

are you suggesting doing nothing?

Nothing about what? If you mean DEI, no it should be scrapped completely which I’m confident it will under out next Government.

Standardized testing is color blind. In the case of ATC it was the factor most related to job performance. You don’t need DEI—just hire based on merit and stop caring about skin color.

It's fine in the UK. I don't have a victim mentality. Neither do my DH and DC. They just studied and worked hard.🤷‍♂️

Are you suggesting people with foreign names should do a deed poll in order to have a fair shout at top jobs?

Are you suggesting doing nothing? That would be a waste of talent. If we want the best people in post, why should we not look beyond the obvious?

We had an Indian PM. I actually liked him. We've had female Pms before (the last one wasn't very good).

If the government or cabinet is mostly white in the UK or US, isn't that reflective of the fact that the country is white?

The Indian parliament is vastly Indian ethnic. So is their cabinet. Is that racist?

So because it didn't happen to you, it never happens at all. OK then.

How can the NHS discriminate against white males in shortlisting? There's no identifying information provided to those doing the shortlisting.

This!

Constant victim mentality.

In the real world, there are just people better at a job or skill than you. Skin colour, race, religion, sexual preferences, pronouns shouldn’t matter. It’s merit. You work hard you get to good places.

In life, there are winners and losers unfortunately.

If I knew I was only being employed just to hit a quota of white females under 40, I wouldn’t want the job, I didn’t earn it.

There was already equality of opportunity. If you could pass a standardized exam (in the case of ATC) then you were qualified to be an ATC.

Now why did people look at the aviation industry and decide that it was too white and male? Why did their sex and race bother you?

As it happens, standards were totally trashed to diversify the ATC in the US, was this an actually worth diversity?

I’d rather the higher standards tbh