Not Transphobia - Manphobia

"And I understand that some trans activists can be equally offensive in their manner when it comes to GC people but I don't think that is an excuse. Both are wrong to do that in my mind."

A direct quote from my earlier post. You must have missed it.

I think some trans women believe they pass, feel unsafe in men's bathrooms or are unaware depending on the echo chamber they may exist in. I don't think it's always as nefarious as its made out to be. I think in some instances it's more about them feeling that they are living out their identity in practical ways or they don't know if others know they are trans and don't want to 'out' themselves. There's lots of reasons that don't involve automatically jumping to the conclusion that it must only be to distress or prey on women.

But I assume you would have issue with people who did that? Or do they get a free pass?

At no point did I do that...

How is that different from labelling and entire group transphobes for not wanting a man in the ladies loos?

So please Dan you tell me one innocent reason a man would enter single sex spaces apart from someone cleaning or performing maintenance. Males with a trans identity know they will cause distress and discomfort to women by entering those spaces, so what innocent reason can they have?

And again, I agree with this as well but then there are also issues around use of language etc which mean that some trans men / non binary biologically female people will not feel welcomed into women's spaces. And many women do feel that trans men asking to be called men or asking for gender neutral language is actually erasing and censoring female experience. So I'm not sure it's as welcoming for them as you'd think. I know a couple of trans and non binary biological women who feel intimidated using women's bathrooms alone because they've been verbally and physically attacked by other women in the past.

Well I know that thanks, my issue is with posters who take it further than that and who do call trans people, particularly trans women offensive terms as a collective group.

I have absolutely seen plenty of blanket, offensive statements like that being thrown around on this site which is what irks me because it escalates what is otherwise a fair and needed discussion into mud slinging. Yesterday I was told i must be a transgender pervert for trying to call that out in a reasonable way because the poster believed that everyone must know that all trans people were "predatory, nefarious, sexual deviants". And I understand that some trans activists can be equally offensive in their manner when it comes to GC people but I don't think that is an excuse. Both are wrong to do that in my mind.

I can fully understand the issues with men in female only spaces and I do agree that trans women will have naturally had different life experience which may create some elements of male privilege/entitlements/harm unlike other biological women who aren't trans or who are trans men/non binary but I don't think you can say that applies to everyone the way that some posters do. I understand the concern of not being able to tell who's safe or not but I do think there are more respectful ways to have what's otherwise a fair conversation than name calling and labeling an entire minority group predatory. I have zero issue with people who can engage in a reasonable discussion without making offensive or transphobic statements.

Yeah, I think your use of terminology is confusing.
Trans Woman = biological man
Trans Man = biological woman.

Agreed. Except that I find 'phobia' itself a patronising and misogynist word in this context. Despite having been sexually assaulted, I am not in the least bit 'phobic'. I like men, have male friends, have a husband. I am personally not going round in permanent abject terror of males. BUT males are bigger, stronger, more violent and more criminal than females. I'd therefore be a bit silly if I didn't live my life with that in the background of my mind. It's not a phobia; it's just about being a little bit mindful of safety and trusting your instincts.
(And this is also not to denigrate the feelings of any woman who does feel phobia about males. It's just that as a catch-all phrase, I find it belittling of my entirely sensible, not phobic, behaviours)

I think it becomes transphobic when the argument becomes more focused on how "all" trans women must be sexual deviants and are purely fetishists and only want to access female spaces for nefarious purposes. I think that's when it crosses the line from being an issue related to the behaviour and harm caused by biological males in society and more around scaremongering about trans women specifically.

It's got nothing to do with how 'deviant' a transwoman might be, it's because they are men. It's that simple.

You appear to contradict yourself when you say:

I am not scared of trans people and welcome trans identifying women into female only spaces. I just don’t want to share any single sex space with the opposite sex, no matter what surgeries they may or may not have had.

What am I missing? Does the first half of this mean you mean you would accept trans men (who were born women) in female-only spaces, or do you make a distinction between female-only spaces and single-sex spaces, and if so what do you consider to be the difference?

I saw a sort of "gotcha" post on Instagram or Threads or something that said (along the lines of) if you don't want trans people in women's toilets because you think men will identify as women to attack you - you aren't scared of trans people YOU ARE SCARED OF MEN
And I was like well, duh. Yes. Obviously.

So what innocent reason would a man have for going into a female single sex space when he knows he may make women uncomfortable and upset?

Umm… op is saying she is happy to have transmen (females) in single sex spaces for women

I am not scared of trans people and welcome trans identifying women into female only spaces.

If you mean transmen, I accept they have every right to be in women's single sex spaces, join women's groups etc, but given the choice (which I accept isn't going to happen), I'd rather not walk into a women's changing room or toilets to see another woman cosplaying masculinity.

I'm confused OP, aren't they agreeing with you? No men in women's spaces.

Charlie Kirk: "Do you believe that there should be a law against men going up to windows to watch women undress?"

Woke student: "Yes, of course I do"

Charlie Kirk: "Then why is it okay for a man to legally walk into a women's locker room?"

Woke student: 😳

i said yabu, because you don't need to make up a new word, its called Misandry.

What 'intents and purposes' do you have in mind? Can you be more specific?

Those who don't like the topic discussed always say this, "it's already been discussed". They however don't get to decide what people post about.