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Why is the public directing their anger at the individual asylum seeker that arrives at the shore…

882 replies

AnotherNC12345 · 17/09/2025 10:54

… rather than the smuggling / trafficking gangs that are responsible for the journey?

I think it’s very extreme to put all of the blame and the anger at the individual that arrives, rather than the people responsible for orchestrating the whole process. These individuals are often ‘sold the dream’ and hooked in by organised crime groups who direct them to the UK. I’ve looked at sample routes from different parts of the world (screenshots may be pending) and these are complex and would need local people, as well as law enforcement, customs officers and other government officials to turn a blind eye involved in smuggling across multiple borders.

It’s no secret that these crossings likely cost a lot of money, and I think it would be safe to assume that refugees would often be in crippling debt to the OCGs who will put pressure on them to pay it back, by threatening them and their families and I would go as far as to say they could then be coerced in to further committing crimes when granted asylum in order to pay back their debt.

These OCGs are likely involved in other trafficking / crime, not just of asylum seekers but likely drugs, weapons and sex as they have the connections across those borders.

I think it’s very unlikely that an asylum seeker is sitting there looking at all the European government websites and shopping for a country with the best benefits package and approaching a trafficker with a brochure like they’re picking a Jet2 holiday. But this is the narrative that’s often put us and fuelled in the media.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have a better system and want to control our borders better on a whole, but this sheer anger and blame placed at the human in front of us seems very misplaced, when they were likely manipulated in to thinking they can have a better life in this particular country and not another, and the problem is way way bigger than an individual.

Why is the public directing their anger at the individual asylum seeker that arrives at the shore…
Why is the public directing their anger at the individual asylum seeker that arrives at the shore…
OP posts:
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MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 20:29

SleeplessInWherever · 18/09/2025 12:49

I had hoped that it was at least the product of a willing affair, but that was wishful thinking/naivety on my part.

I’ll watch that over the weekend, it does sound interesting!

No, sadly he owned her.

He was James Wedderburn, son of Sir John Wedderburn of Blackness Castle who was hung, drawn and quartered as a Jacobite on 28th November, 1746. Her name was Rosanna (her mother was nicknamed “tally Amy, which potentially explains me 🤣)Their son was named Robert. He somehow managed to travel to England to seek recognition from his Scottish family. They turned him away. He then travelled to London, published a book called The Horrors of Slavery (still in print, Amazon) and joined forces with abolitionists like Wilberforce. I am immensely proud of him.

My mother was a dreadful racist until she spent a year investigating our family tree and completely changed her thinking. I am also immensely proud of her.

This is why I abhor racism.

Ablondiebutagoody · 18/09/2025 20:28

MsJinks · 18/09/2025 20:18

I can’t see where he was a known terrorist? His bios would have given that detail up.
As they say he was here illegally sounds like his asylum claim was rejected and either he was waiting appeal, or a removal, but that’s not stated precisely.
What he did was abhorrent and he is at least jailed, unlike many rapists, and is subject to a deportation order.
However abhorrent I don’t think this means that the entire Egyptian male population are rapists. I don’t think it means all asylum seekers are rapists.
I am actually not trying to get people onto my way of thinking re immigration- though some may be surprised - I’m hoping for humanity to other humans ie/ don’t shout at them outside hotels, attack them. And this is becoming more and more not ‘just asylum seekers’ because it’s now taken as more or less ok by many to do that to them, so it’s spreading to other people that look to some as if they may not be ‘British’.
I do also despair at the misinformation- for example though this awful individual is subject to a deportation order due to his crime, normally failed asylum seekers/other failed applicants go under a removal notice. They also aren’t illegal whilst pending a claim/appeal. It’s like a starting point for a maths problem being 2+2=5 - it is just a wrong starting premis and spoils a lot of debate around this as it seems deliberately obtuse, and like these people are so unimportant it just doesn’t matter how we term them. None of this is good for any of us and our society.

Obviously not all but some will be rapists and it's up to us as a country who we let in. Would you say that crimes like this are a price worth paying in order to be compassionate humans to others?

Papyrophile · 18/09/2025 20:25

That's a lot of words used to say very little @MsJinks . I really despair at the reluctance of immigrant communities to embrace progress. Honestly, I think some would prefer to live in the Stone Age.

TheLivelyViper · 18/09/2025 20:23

usernamealreadytaken · 18/09/2025 16:37

"You also cannot claim asylum until you are on UK soil, unless you are coming from Ukraine and Hong Kong. That it is the only current programme which exists, and I'm happy about that but it means for anyone else from many countries in turmoil have to reach here before you can reach asylum seekers. There is UKRS which an existing scheme for vulnerable refugees. You have to be referred for resettlement by partners such as the UNHCR." - so why don't these men take their families and go to a safe refugee camp?

Also before Brexit we were part of the Dublin III Regulation in which the EU tried to determine which member state was responsible for examining an asylum claim. In practice states could return asylum seekers to the first “safe” EU country they entered - however since Brexit we can no longer do that. So that's another reason why we now have to take more asylum seekers." - we received more returns than we were able to deport under Dublin III.

"Finally the reason why many asylum seekers lack passports or documents is because first many countries don't provide the documentation, if you are fleeing from a dictatorship or a violent regime you can't exactly go to the passport office and say can I have one before you try and escape." - they have enough time to plan, for their families to cobble together the smuggling fee, and contact a criminal gang, so you'd assume they might just remember to grab their documents on their way out of the door, and also remember not to throw them in the Channel on their way over.

"If your facing, a girl facing FGM cannot ask the local authorities for a passport as the community is often complicit in the practice, making official documents impossible to access without flagging something." - they are not men.

"Or like in northern Mozambique last week when Al Shabbah forcibly displaced many from their homes and killed some people, children watching decapitation, displacing thousands, burning homes and committing atrocities. Families had no chance to retrieve personal documents before running for safety." - again, they are not men; we don't get thousands of women and children fleeing; they go to safe places which are close.

Most of the places these men are fleeing require citizens to carry their national ID, so it wouldn't be a stretch to assume they would not only have one, but be used to carrying it 🙄

Refugee camps aren't nice places, many are over crowded because they have too many people, many with the further cuts to FCDO and foreign aid, have had to shut down or don't have enough supplies. There is often just two tents, sometimes open to the weather, often people sleeping on top of rach other, mainly on the floor, which is the sand etc as they often don't have beds etc.
In fact the one set up in southern Mozambique in response to the recent burnings of the homes - the camp is running out of the supplies they use for children, they don't have enough money to get them all, they are asking for a rapid injection of funding but if they don't get it, some workers will have to leave as they won't be able to keep it going. Many charities/camps have been affected by the continued funding cuts of foriegn aid from the UK and other countries, the fact that many have done it at the same time has had disastrous effects.

In the recent attacks in Mozambique which are recent, the same ones also from Boko Haram in norther Nigeria, they burnt some of the homes and all people had (that's why they cannot get their documents, their were children having to flee and see decapitations, people took the clothes they had and ran, and tried to hide, many homes were destroyed, people were killed by Al Shabbah, and they forcibly displaced and moved these people out of their homes). This is very common in some these areas, both my terrorist groups, some of which are more powerful than the state, and in other areas by the state military as well.

With you saying many of these places expect you to carry ID, in certain areas if trying to flee, having said ID will mean you are caught, in many of these places as dictators etc get into power they revoke and take away people's passports etc as do many of the terrorist groups. In response to FGM as I also said it is a common tactic to inflict sexual violence onto men (yes still not FGM but that was just an example, I wasn't only talking about men in my comment). As I said earlier, Men in conflict zones are also victims of sexual violence, more than we expect. In the DRC, the UN has documented widespread cases of men and boys being raped in detention or conflict settings as a form of humiliation and control. Both my the state sometimes and often my such milita groups as well.

If you're escaping the sexual violence across Goma and the DRC, you are at risk of retribution from the military you cannot travel to your home (which many don't have any more), to get documents, you have to flee and do so as quickly as possible. Military forces, or militias often deliberately seize or destroy identity papers to control populations or prevent escape. For instance, Rohingya refugees in Myanmar were widely documented as having their papers confiscated, leaving them stateless, on purpose.

As I also said, men often gave the worse treatment (sometimes), with torture, forced military service, sexual violence as humiliation, worse punishments if they defy, or try to escape etc.

When you flee a country, you often don't pay anyone at that point (depending on geography), plus people smugglers approach them and exploit them. The crossing the chanel element is the last bit of the journey, so actually they don't contact them at the start. They often don't "cobble anything together", families often split up to avoid detection, men commonly go first as its a risky journery and then they try and bring other members over (they often travel behind, so they escape to another country and travel through, but the men tend to take the more dangerous path first, as it's easier to find ways to get the rest of your family into the safe country of your choice after). Many people leave with the clothes on their back, especially those who sometimes when they get to refugee camps, have to leave as its too full.

In respect to them staying in other countries or within they continent, the vast majority do, last year we only had 100k refugees and 34% were on small boats. Last year globally there were 43.7 million refugees.

Over 73 million people displaced within their own countries (internally displaced persons), so many don't even leave at all.
In terms of other safer African countries - The East of Africa hosted about 5.4 million refugees and asylum seekers in 2024. Whilst these same countries had 18.8 million internally displaced people. This means that refugee camps etc are very stretched, many people unfortunately cannot stay, and as I said above the cuts to foreign aid, has had a major impact as well, particularly with the specific food/pastes for those who are malnourished. Uganda for example took 1.8 million last year, Ethiopia, 1.1 million, etc.

In West & Central Africa, last year they had nearly 2.55 million refugees & asylum seekers (Chad, Cameroon, Niger, Mali, Nigeria, Côte d'Ivoire and other countries as well). The MENA region took around 16.6 million forcibly displaced people last year.
So Jordan around 611k, Egypt, 877k, Turkey 2.9 million. So in comparison to our 100k as a richer country and one with more resources in terms.of charities etc, is quite little as the countries nearby already do a lot. Unfortunately there's lots of bad things and conflicts, targeting, torture across the world and that leads to 43 million refugees and that's just the people who have to leave their countries and set up a new home.

Youdontseehow · 18/09/2025 20:20

AnotherNC12345 · 18/09/2025 19:54

I was going to say the same. Britain was the First Nation in the world to offer free, universal and comprehensive healthcare to all its residents. The minister of healthcare (founder) at the time said himself “No society can legitimately call itself civilised if a sick person is denied medical aid because of lack of means.” - to me things like this are British values and ones to be proud of.

But it’s not “free” though! It is “free at the point of delivery” but paid for through taxation. It’s not a bottomless pit of “free treatment”.

You may be surprised to know that translators are paid more per hour than an average nurse (qualified approx 5 years). I spent an hour on the phone to a father last week via a translator only for him to deny his daughter treatment because “his daughter will not have sex”. All in the cost for that one hour would be about £60 - multiply that by thousands and that’s how much NHS money is being spent on what was a waste of time.

Many fathers will also not let their DC be vaccinated (although they’ll let them have vaccines if required by governments to go “back home”) so our communities are at increased risk of viral outbreaks, TB because children are not getting protected.

Why come here if you are going to reject modern medicine?

MsJinks · 18/09/2025 20:18

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 18:57

These articles are so depressing.

This is what people are concerned by. A known, convicted Islamic terrorist enters country the illegally, claims asylum, rapes a woman late at night in a park while waiting for his claim to be processed and is now locked up in prison.

And the judicial system is still discussing his rights and whether he should be deported or not.

I can’t see where he was a known terrorist? His bios would have given that detail up.
As they say he was here illegally sounds like his asylum claim was rejected and either he was waiting appeal, or a removal, but that’s not stated precisely.
What he did was abhorrent and he is at least jailed, unlike many rapists, and is subject to a deportation order.
However abhorrent I don’t think this means that the entire Egyptian male population are rapists. I don’t think it means all asylum seekers are rapists.
I am actually not trying to get people onto my way of thinking re immigration- though some may be surprised - I’m hoping for humanity to other humans ie/ don’t shout at them outside hotels, attack them. And this is becoming more and more not ‘just asylum seekers’ because it’s now taken as more or less ok by many to do that to them, so it’s spreading to other people that look to some as if they may not be ‘British’.
I do also despair at the misinformation- for example though this awful individual is subject to a deportation order due to his crime, normally failed asylum seekers/other failed applicants go under a removal notice. They also aren’t illegal whilst pending a claim/appeal. It’s like a starting point for a maths problem being 2+2=5 - it is just a wrong starting premis and spoils a lot of debate around this as it seems deliberately obtuse, and like these people are so unimportant it just doesn’t matter how we term them. None of this is good for any of us and our society.

EmeraldShamrock000 · 18/09/2025 20:16

Trying to discourage others from following them.
Of course I feel sorry for them as a human but there is no deterrent to stop it from all over Europe.
People are angry because services are stretched, plus lack of background checks, many arrested have previous convictions, some for very serious crimes.

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 20:14

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 12:09

When I lived abroad and gained citizenship after six years, I became a citizen. I can’t claim to be just as French/German/Dutch as anyone born there, just by virtue of a passport. It wouldn’t be true, would it?

Interesting and knowledgeable personal experience, thanks for that. If I were you and someone asked me what nationality I was, I would say French/German or Dutch because that is what I had chosen to be and that nation had accepted me as such.

Different perspectives I suppose.

Papyrophile · 18/09/2025 20:12

If I may offer a different view? I am proud that the NHS is open and accessible. Everyone should be treated for the basics without cost, because 90% will be a child that needs antibiotics for an ear infection or a roofer who's slid down a ladder and broken a leg. Easy and straightforward to deal with. The problems arise when everyone, from your/my 24-week premie to your/my 94 YO is deemed equally deserving of every cutting edge procedure. Medicine can fix so much more than was possible at the inception of the NHS, and the costs have ballooned too.

I would provide basic care via the NHS... child and maternal health ++, injuries, obviously. Older people's hips and knees, done with an income related contribution, but promptly. I would almost certainly exclude all fertility treatments (sorry). And as I have the chair, briefly, doctors would have to make a very solid case for funding unproven procedures except in terminal cases.

But alongside my fairly bare bones NHS, there could be (as there is in most of Europe) a health insurance industry that's not modelled on the US. Everyone paid more than £x makes a contribution, and can access care beyond the basic.

Do people (you reading this on MN) not realise what a poor vision of life you are seeing? People in the poorest state of the USA earn on average 25% more. The UK is headed back to the third world, and fast.

Youdontseehow · 18/09/2025 20:11

LakieLady · 17/09/2025 11:38

Because xenophobes are too narrow-minded to see the bigger picture.

The bigger picture being;
1.) they are not all asylum seekers/refugees
2.) the UK can not accommodate an infinite number of displayed people
3.) people are sick of seeing their communities rotting away through disrepair, lack of funding for services, NHS dentist/GP/hospital waiting lists ever growing and generally getting less services for more tax while we spend ££££s on ILLEGAL migrants
4.) people don’t want huge numbers of unvetted young males with vastly different cultural values (particularly towards girls and women) living in their communities
5.) people can appreciate diversity whilst still not wanting a complete change to the fabric of British society

Not wanting a society in which FGM, honour killings and sharia law exist does not make one xenophobic.

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 20:07

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 12:36

The original post on that subject was mine. It’s not the fault of an inadequate NHS that we struggle to even communicate with patients who can’t speak a word of English, that precious time is wasted and no treatment can be done for them. We’re not at fault.

Thank goodness for the immigrant expertise keeping it all going, you say. I wonder what you’d make of our lunchtime discussions. You’d be happy with treatment carried out by healthcare professionals who believe in witchcraft, I take it?

I don’t even know what that means.

I’m fairly sure that most NHS consultants born overseas don’t practice witchcraft.

Are you seriously suggesting that they do? Seriously?

AnotherNC12345 · 18/09/2025 20:03

PurpleNurple23 · 18/09/2025 15:33

Why would they not feel safe in France? I've been to Paris and I liked it there. Lovely patisseries. If I simply didn't like France as a place to live and work I wouldn't risk potential death at sea.

But I'll read up thread as you suggested.

It was lovely for you because you’re not an asylum seeker.

Many years ago I stayed in a hotel on the outskirts of Paris. That wasn’t so lovely. They’re treated like trash.

OP posts:
AnotherNC12345 · 18/09/2025 19:59

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 18:57

These articles are so depressing.

This is what people are concerned by. A known, convicted Islamic terrorist enters country the illegally, claims asylum, rapes a woman late at night in a park while waiting for his claim to be processed and is now locked up in prison.

And the judicial system is still discussing his rights and whether he should be deported or not.

A known, convicted Islamic terrorist

here is where more work needs to be done whilst screening people on entry. If he is ‘known’ then how did he slip through the cracks? This is where the Home Office is failing us.

OP posts:
MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 19:59

MsJinks · 18/09/2025 12:19

’Our country’ holds Christian values - the King is the head of the Church of England- but aside from active religion, with which we are tolerant and have freedom - it happens that our history, culture and laws are mainly rooted in traditionally Christian values - that can also be small ‘c’ christian - things such as democracy, tolerance, freedom and compassion- which are traditionally British values, or maybe not any more.

I’m fully on board with British values. Decency, welcoming people in distress. “Christian” values, not so much.

AnotherNC12345 · 18/09/2025 19:54

ForgetMeNotRose · 18/09/2025 18:27

The NHS was created as a promise that healthcare would be free and fair for everyone, and many people are genuinely proud of that. The NHS often ranks above the monarchy in surveys about what makes people proud to be British. I'm all for changes to the NHS, in keeping with that original promise. But saying it's a part of British national identity is not over-egging it; it's evidentially true.

I was going to say the same. Britain was the First Nation in the world to offer free, universal and comprehensive healthcare to all its residents. The minister of healthcare (founder) at the time said himself “No society can legitimately call itself civilised if a sick person is denied medical aid because of lack of means.” - to me things like this are British values and ones to be proud of.

OP posts:
MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 19:54

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 13:01

“So you are stating that you think people in Britain are superior to those of other nations?
Fair enough. At least you’re honest. It’s the dancing about and failing to own opinions by some that is so awful.”

So you agree with me then, and agree that such practices have no place in British society.

No of course they don’t! The vast majority of immigrants to the UK agree with us. Which is why they want to be here and not Afghanistan, for example.

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 19:50

SleeplessInWherever · 18/09/2025 12:56

I wasn’t calling you a Neanderthal, to be clear.

I was calling people who can’t decide what a Briton and talk about British purity as Neanderthals. Without the context you provided later about that interpretation of Neanderthals actually being incorrect.

The first part of my comment wasn’t intended as a slight against your genealogy either. It was a sort of tongue in cheek comment that was intended to mean that some people would consider you British because of the link to Scotland, and ignore the African link altogether.

I have just realised that it wasn’t communicated particularly well. But there wasn’t any intention of offending you. It was actually a solidarity post, with what was supposed to be sarcasm/humour!

Thank you. Apologies, I completely misunderstood.

ForgetMeNotRose · 18/09/2025 19:38

RitaFromThePitCanteen · 18/09/2025 19:31

Surprised by your comment about national identity. My experience has always been that most people are proud of the NHS, if not outright patriotic about it. The NHS was even featured in the London 2012 opening ceremony. Not many countries would do that. The relatively recent attempts to destroy it may have dampened people's enthusiasm, but the ideas behind it play a part in how Brits see ourselves in relation to our national values such as a sense of decency and fair play (because everyone should be entitled to health care, not just the wealthy).

Absolutely

ForgetMeNotRose · 18/09/2025 19:34

Vinvertebrate · 18/09/2025 19:25

The French are generally more left-wing than the Brits, and even they don’t embrace communist healthcare with our inexplicable zeal and pride. Their healthcare is still universal and ime excellent. Wish I could say the same about “our” NHS!

I didn't say it was delivering a high quality service, I said it was severely underfunded and being propped up by people from all over the world. I personally think it needs to be better funded and improved. But certainly not replaced by something that is not free at point of access. I think a lot of British people are happy we live in the country where we don't leave people to die because they can't afford private healthcare.

RitaFromThePitCanteen · 18/09/2025 19:31

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 18:13

Unfortunately so. One of the sacred cows we dare not criticise. Designed for a different time and a different population, but god forbid we try anything different or come up with something better.

’A big part’ our national identity, though? That’s over-egging it a bit! 😁

Edited

Surprised by your comment about national identity. My experience has always been that most people are proud of the NHS, if not outright patriotic about it. The NHS was even featured in the London 2012 opening ceremony. Not many countries would do that. The relatively recent attempts to destroy it may have dampened people's enthusiasm, but the ideas behind it play a part in how Brits see ourselves in relation to our national values such as a sense of decency and fair play (because everyone should be entitled to health care, not just the wealthy).

Vinvertebrate · 18/09/2025 19:25

ForgetMeNotRose · 18/09/2025 19:18

What's the alternative to free to access healthcare?

You not liking the NHS doesn't mean it isn't a widely recognised and highly valued British institution.

Similarly, Britishness doesn't have to mean what you want it to mean.

The French are generally more left-wing than the Brits, and even they don’t embrace communist healthcare with our inexplicable zeal and pride. Their healthcare is still universal and ime excellent. Wish I could say the same about “our” NHS!

ForgetMeNotRose · 18/09/2025 19:25

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 19:23

Right back at you - it doesn’t mean what you want it to mean, either. I’m not the one arguing that British people need to slavishly adhere to failing systems, emotionally invest in them, make them part of their national identity out of a sense of nostalgia, or fear of what comes afterwards. There was a Britain long before the NHS and there will be one after it’s gone.

Was that what I said?

It was not.

I don't decide what it means to be British and (thankfully) nor do you.

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 19:23

ForgetMeNotRose · 18/09/2025 19:18

What's the alternative to free to access healthcare?

You not liking the NHS doesn't mean it isn't a widely recognised and highly valued British institution.

Similarly, Britishness doesn't have to mean what you want it to mean.

Right back at you - it doesn’t mean what you want it to mean, either. I’m not the one arguing that British people need to slavishly adhere to failing systems, emotionally invest in them, make them part of their national identity out of a sense of nostalgia, or fear of what comes afterwards. There was a Britain long before the NHS and there will be one after it’s gone.

ForgetMeNotRose · 18/09/2025 19:18

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 19:00

There’s nothing wrong with saying something was great achievement, and we’re glad to have had it, but it no longer serves us well, so we’ll look into alternatives going into the future. That’s progress.

What's the alternative to free to access healthcare?

You not liking the NHS doesn't mean it isn't a widely recognised and highly valued British institution.

Similarly, Britishness doesn't have to mean what you want it to mean.