To be absolutely raging at DS17 after shoplifting today?

You said if he ended up with a criminal record at 18 you’d throw him out. Piss poor parenting. I can only assume you’re saying it to sound like a no nonsense hard arse

That is not true. It would now be illegal to refuse someone a job based on a criminal record for pissing against a wall, because it is not related to his position as a teacher.

if he had been prosecuted for abusing children, they would of course have a legitimate reason to reject him for a teaching job.

I didn't say he would get a crminal record for this. You are making up all kinds of stuff as you go along. I wouldn't be interested in being seen as a 'hard arse' whatever that signifies.

I assume you think it's OK for YOUR kids to indulge in petty theft to impress their friends?

that's how it starts. Best of luck.

Well, it's not easy, but please try to ignore your mother, she's talking rubbish, but do warn her not to say the same to your DS.

@Cathn0 DS17 is upstairs in his room now with the Xbox on

If this was me, that Xbox wouldn't be on for much longer. Remove his phone, too, and make him sit with you and your mum every evening for the next two weeks - no friends, no phone, no gaming - oh, and make him cook the tea and do the housework every day if you think he would learn some new skills.

That'll be punishment enough for a teenage lad.

It's really not- anything in teaching or which requires developed vetting (police, many civil service roles etc.) become very hard to get once you have a criminal record.

I knew a guy on teacher training who was subject to all kinds of stipulations because he'd had a caution for peeing against a wall in public after a night out. It went down as indecent exposure and he had to jump through a LOT of hoops to get on the course and then found it very hard to get a job afterwards.

Sorry but at 17 its not 'daft teenage behaviour and way to old to be stealing things 'with his mates'
Thats more like what 12 /13 year olds do

Has he got a job at college?
Upstairs playing his xbox but you will take his phone?
Why is he on his xbox? What is his punishment for thinking its ok to steal ?

A lot of crime feels a bit daft at the time: shoplifting, fare dodging, some drug taking, a bit of light dope dealing to your mates etc. Snd he is 17, not 12 or 13, less than a year from being potentially in an adult prison.

The point is that, when you are caught, you have to understand that you have gone beyond being daft and have to face up to real penalties.

A couple of generations ago, the teen would have been led by the ear to the police station, been made to apologise and read the riot act.

It’s not unforgivable but needs serious consequences, far more than a little chat.

When I worked in retail a teen was caught shoplifting, given a warning by the security guard and a police officer and her parents were called. I had to sit in the office while it was going on and I remember either the police officer or the guard telling her to choose her friends more wisely. They’d egged her on and then ran off.

OP, the nonchalance might well be a front, but either way, stay calm and tell him to think carefully about how a criminal record for theft might affect his future. A Magistrate I know deals a lot with the youth court - there are apparently lots of cases of lads who say they want to be a mechanic etc but have just lost their licence (before they have even got one often) for driving underage etc. It has usually never occurred to them that driving offences might jeopardise their career chances.

I'd ground him, take his XBox and phone and set him an essay to write. 1000 words on how a criminal record impacts on the life chances of young people, including travel, job opportunities and further education. He can be ungrounded and get back his tech when he gives you 1000 words outlining just how stupid he'd be to continue on this path.

Unfortunately it is quite likely that it's just the first time he's been caught and it's been going on a while. My husband likes to tell the story of when he was 10 and tried to steal a comic from the newsagent, immediately got caught and ended up in floods of tears begging the shop owner not to tell his parents in front of all the cool kids from school, but my husband is unlucky like that!

? Nothing is closed to you for being arrested- accepting a caution of getting a conviction may show up on an DBs. It’s illegal to discriminate based on criminal history, you’re right that some jobs can be problematic with some offences but it’s hardly the clean sweep you’re suggesting.

and of course, OPs son is as far away from a criminal record as you or I so is unlikely to be able to relate to this point.

I'm not proud of this,but two of mine where caught shoplifting when they where a bit younger than your ds

In their case,it was because I was a skint single mum who had to save for treats and they wanted what their mates had

They'd been at it for about 3 weekends on the trot when the police arrested them and rang me to say they'd been caught

They had to have an adult with them and the police called out my (narcissistic) mother

She sat there,squawking about 'they've learnt this from their mother!she's a shit parent!she's taught them alllll the tricks'

Even the kids where 'what???mum wouldn't dream of stealing!' but that didn't stop her squawking on (the police had to tell her to put a sock in it)

They came home on bail and I was fuming-they lost all treats,I took their phones,stopped their pocket money (and i made them donate it to charity) and was very angry (I tried to show it as quiet disappointment) and they where grounded until they had to sign bail (a few weeks later)

The fact they'd been arrested and in the cells,the fact my mother had unashamedly lied about me (and she carried it on by telling everyone id taught them as she was perfect and they wouldn't have done it if she'd brought them up, which is utter bollocks as my brother steals to buy his drugs) and the utter shame and anger I felt stopped them from ever doing it again

Both are now adults and in jobs that need a cleaner than clean record and have never done it again but I remember the shame of them doing it-ill never forget that phone call

Same but I was ten. The shame of the dressing down I got by the sales woman (mum never knew about it) was enough to make me go to bed the minute I got home. My mum thought I was genuinely poorly as my shame was physical. At 17 I wouldn’t have given a shit

There are several career path that will be closed to him if he is arrested - universities have cancelled places for theft offences (bit scandalously) and some visas will be denied with convictions. It’s serious and he isn’t a child. I’d be taking away privileges

It will be a daft moment if he’s remorseful but it sounds like he’s not (hope I’m wrong and it’s teenage bravado as the security guard and his mates might have been there) As a pp said this could be the first time that he’s been caught hence the attitude but it’s up to him now.

“he’s been hanging round with a rougher crowd lately” - this is likely to be the reason, rather than any poor parenting. Maybe talk to him about his choice of friends and following them down the wrong path.
Yes there needs to be consequences for him and you need to discuss the seriousness of the police being involved next time.

I'd be incandescent with rage - not just about the stealing but because of his nonchalant attitude.

He's too old for it to be a bit of a laugh.

Is he usually easily led? He could be doing all sorts of stuff with this new, rougher gang of mates.

Stealing might be the thing end of a much bigger wedge.

Try and get him away from this ‘rougher crowd’. Encourage him to mix with boys you know and whose influence you approve of.

Read him the riot act.

However, I did the same for a year as a younger teen 12/13 we used to do it as a dare mainly combs and stuff- never got caught and thought better of it.

Actually did indirectly get caught a kid from our street was hanging around with us. He we always nicking money of his mum but he would not tell us about it. My parents found us knew he was always up to this and assumed the few things I had (fishing floats!) were from his money. I never touched it. Anyway i got punished for a different crime. My mum did let go after about a year!

But mainly I just felt bad about it with some being smaller shops so stopped on my own accord.

Kids do stupid things and adults have to be the parent & not think well I did similar. He is also getting a bit old at 17and I'd be more worried about what else his new 'mates' are up to.

Ironically the kids surname was Bird he got most of the lads on our street in trouble. Think he grew out of it too though

I think it's just an idiotic teenage thing.

I was caught shoplifting at 16. I'd only done it a couple of times and it was much the same, everyone was doing it and I was going along with the group and didn't think about the consequences. Security called my mum, she was livid. I realised that it really wasn't a laugh or funny or worth it and never did it again. Hopefully your son comes to the same conclusion.

A couple lf my friends did this at school. We all laugh about it now, so do their parents. Be cross with him but don’t be yourself up

Yeah I guess so. That's embarrassing enough really isn't it. Mummy having to come to the rescue.

Has he got a job? Maybe a part time job would take up some of his free time and help him buy rather than steal things.

So firstly he’s obviously not going to get a criminal record for this but if your teenager did get a criminal record for something similar do you really think throwing him out on the streets at 18 is the answer?

Because there are plenty of extremely unsavoury and dangerous people waiting to scope him up and take control of him and hell would freeze over before I’d throw my kids out to them just so I could feel like a hard arse.

This.

My friend’s kid did this. She made him donate the cost of the item he tried to steal to a charity, and sent him out on the local litter pick (a group in our little town organise litter picks every month in the local woodland and waking areas). She said it was a fine and community service.

He took the punishment, he was contrite. Her disappointment in him was worth more than raging anger at him. But I don’t know what you do if they shrug and refuse at that age.