To think this is fraud and do I say something or stay out of it?

This @doitellthem !!!!

I know someone who was criminally prosecuted for stealing from his employer. He avoided prison time because the amounts (that they could prove) weren’t high enough.

I don’t understand how it’s a civil offence? I’m guessing the amounts are quite high if the perpetrator is having landscaping done.

How does it affect you in any way? Other than being jealous perhaps?

Nothing to do with you, guessing you are just jealous of her

Yeah definitely theft. I’m honestly shocked at the number of people who think this is ok.

If the person paying doesn’t know what they’re paying for, it’s theft.

Who needs enemies with a friend like you OP

The posters who think that there would be any sort of criminal prosecution in these circumstances are rather over excited. This is a civil fraud perpetrated by the employee against his or her employer. There is no chance whatsoever that the employer would go to the police about this. I say that as a lawyer who has acted for many companies which have been defrauded by employees fiddling expenses or similar

yes this. The relative does not own company A...the job is being carried out by company B and Company A pays...unknowingly!

OP, how fo you know that’s the case though? Have you sighted this in the company books personally?

There’s lots of instances where business’s will award work/tenders to people with certain backdoor conditions. For example, we’ll award you the landscaping work at our business if you do some required landscaping at my MIL’s for free. It’s then not a case of the business paying for the landscaping at the MIL’s place, rather the landscaper thinking overall, while sucking up the loss incurred by doing the MIL work they will still come out ahead by agreeing to this. It’s definitely not uncommon. My understanding is that this is only prohibited with government/public agencies awarding work or tenders but it’s not at all prohibited with private companies/businesses awarding work.

I’m thinking you likely have no idea or evidence how all this is actually working, in which case it’s best to remove your beak.

And quite what is "for the good" about using your employers funds to do up your mates garden?

Mind your own business, you sound jealous and resentful and she’s not your friend.

1. You don't seem to 'know' anything
2. You're not her 'friend', are you
3. Keep your snout out.

You sound bored. Get a life.

How exactly are the books being cooked? Doing probono work is not illegal.

Thanks! And the most thanks to my agent, my mother, my wonderful friends, my plastic surgeon, my yoga teacher, Mumsnetters and all the gods 🏆⭐✨

Yes that is fraud.

Please stay out of what your friend is or isn’t doing. Why would you even consider reporting when you have no idea how others run their business.

You don't sound much of a friend.

(assuming not a fixed price contract)

Every building job I've ever had done was on a fixed price, fixed period contract with a penalty for overrunning. I wrote these contracts. It's madness to pay by the hour and/or pay ad hoc for materials - you're asking for the work to be slow and expensive. (When I was freelancing in a completely different industry, I charged on the same basis.)

Since I've been very lucky with builders, who were all clever and efficient, I don't give a shit if they buggered off to do another job in the middle of the day sometimes. They got mine done well and on time. I expect I paid 10% or so over the odds for materials as I required them to price up for the whole job. Don't care what they did with any extras.

Plus there’s the double “benefit” for business owners of putting personal expenses through the company - saving corporation tax and saving PAYE / NI tax by not needing to pay yourself as much. Definitely tax fraud.

My ex does this. He puts personal invoices through his business all the time and boasts about it to our kids. He recently got his garden landscaped for free by getting the same company to do a very small bit of work for his office but their main work was on his house. I expect the invoice just says something generic like 'landscaping work'. He also gets free holidays by pretending to be at conferences he has no intention of actually joining.

Its not just a tax saving thing - it also avoids child maintenance as if you're spending via the business you don't need to pay yourself as much.

I don't have evidence so I ignore it, but its really frustrating.

It staggering that 95% of posters don’t realise that OP is correct about some form of fraud or embezzlement taking place. I wonder how many people are unwittingly committing crimes.

Actually she could be done for receiving if she knew it was illegal.

How do you know the business is having their books 'cooked'

No the Company will either look into it and find the company policy is ok, and it is ok for their senior employees to use company resources to do up their mates gardens, or will uncover what could be systematic fraud. Either way they will be grateful.

I’m quite shocked at how many people on this thread are stating things they do and then saying “but it’s not fraud”. I’m an accountant and most of it is!

Anything going through a business that is not a business expense (unless declared as such) is reducing taxable profits for a company and is tax fraud. It is not a legitimate way of reducing tax (as someone seemed to think).

Anyone that is an employee or director of a company (or relative of one) getting work done for free which the company have paid for (in labour costs or material costs) is likely tax fraud as it should be declared as a benefit and employment taxes paid.

Anyone charging people for materials they’ve really used on other jobs is just plain normal fraud (assuming not a fixed price contract).

These might all be things lots of people do but they’re not ok and I wouldn’t be telling anyone that you do it.