To think feminism has made dating harder, not easier, for women?

LOLNO

Yes, but I don't think that's because of feminism.I think it's because the dating game has changed.

Now, people think it's acceptable to date loads of other people.Until you've had the exclusivity chat. That's a horrid u s import.

You’ve never dated pre-feminism, though? Why do you assume it was more straightforward or easier? I don’t really see what feminism has to do with ‘who’s more invested’? I’m sure there have always been human relationships where one person was more invested than the other.

If you read Sylvia Plath, her dating life doesn’t sound particularly easy or straightforward. I think pre-feminism women had the complications of trying to navigate how to square their intelligence and career ambitions with social expectations and the expectations of the men they were dating. I think there was a lot of psychological conflict around that and it caused some women a lot of confusion and anguish. I don’t think things were easy or straightforward at all. I don’t think she felt particularly clear about what her role was.

You seem to think we don’t understand what you’re saying. We do. The majority of us just disagree with you.

I don’t think anyone did American style “dating” in the U.K. before feminism, did they? Wasn’t even a term used in the 90s when I grew up — only became generally used here after Sex and the City got very popular. Used to be called “going out” but there wasn’t much of the American “dating” ritual involved - less corsages for the room, and more like having a pint and sharing some crisps at the pub and then bingo you were boyfriend and girlfriend.

Not sure anyone did much “dating” before feminists got women the vote, to be honest. Unless your idea of uncomplicated “dating” is going for a ride in the pony-trap with the local farmer’s son after church, or doing a round of “Mr Fortune’s Maggot” with a country squire at the Assembly Rooms in Bath.

In a way I agree with you op, but I don’t see it as a bad thing. Women are realising that they are better off staying single rather than being in a shitty relationship with someone who disrespects them. I feel much happier single rather than tolerating a man that doesn’t tick all my boxes. I can’t think of many positives of being in a relationship anymore, other than company (which I can get from friends) and intimacy …….which you can kind of get without being in a relationship.

Unless find someone who has similar interests than me, similar life style and similar values then I am perfectly happy staying single.

I agree that dating has become more complicated, but I don't think it's got anything to do with feminism.

I think it's the awful US import of exclusivity. I'm not even that old. 80s /90s child i and when I started dating in the early 00s it went without saying that if you d been on a date with somebody and started seeing them.That was it, you didn't see anyone else.

Now, is this awful import of multidating. And i've seen advice on some dating threads on this website that you should never pursue your exclusive with someone until you have the chat. Some women have had the attitude that it's absolutely fine for men to see other women and for women to see other men. This is when a relationship as 3 months old. So hardly new.

For me, dating was as confusing as hell, because I didn't know who was seeing who if they were seeing somebody else where I actually stood. It's rare now to get a man that's just looking for one woman.And looking to stop when they find somebody they actually like and see how it goes. Most of the time they keep looking for something else.And it's a kind of sweet short mentality.

I think there's only confusion when you have entitled men who haven't moved with the times.

Most women expect someone who puts equal effort to them into their home life, whether is having a job, doing the housework and running the family. Women may have once run the home whilst men financially supported the house- now women are putting in the hours on financial support they need men to step up at home. It's not rocket science. Many men seem to struggle with this idea-but I don't see feminism as the problem here.

I mean no disrespect because I’ve been a proud second wave feminist my entire adult life but…what about the mediocre women? If we’re grading an entire sex then surely we should be applying the same standards to ourselves?

“Men stepping up”

Do you really just mean that modern dating means you’re expecting to pay your way instead of the man paying for all the dates?

It has made it much easier. At one point practically the only option was to get married have kids, and you were practically trapped if he was cruel or violent. You couldn't get a mortgage or something on HP on your own. Now you can be financially independent and decide who exactly you want in your life.

Can you give an example regarding “confusion about roles”?

It’s freshers week in lots of places. Head to your nearest student Union - there are plenty of young men and women meeting and chatting each other up in bars. 😆

Why should it not be hard?

If its an physical FWB there is no need to vastly invested.

If it is about picking a life partner the ability to communicate and the wish to be actively engaged in an ongoing dialogue shows each of the couple want to create a long term bond and make their relationship work and benefit the other person.

I think the OP is talking about dating specifically, and while no one wants to be harassed is does seem a shame that men and women don’t ever seem to get chatting in a bar, for example - I think that that’s now quite frowned upon.

What do you mean by power games?

Higher expectations are good.

No, feminism is not the problem.

The clarity pre-feminism was that men were fully human in a way that women weren’t, and that they had a right to legal and financial control of women, and that there was no such thing as marital rape.

Is that the kind of clarity you want?

Romantic relationships have always been complicated. Said complications are responsible for the bulk of thousands of years worth of art, literature and poetry.

So, YABU. And if you’re repeatedly finding yourself in relationship situations with a lot of second-guessing, defensiveness and push-pull about roles, you need to review how you’re picking these men.

What is harder?

That a woman is no longer financially dependent on her male family members and is allowed work outside the home, have bank accounts can buy property and be recognised as a legal person?

That she can pick her partner and not be forced to marry for financial reasons while loosing her legal person status or not worry that he can kick her out of her home?

That she is looking for a partner who sees her as an equal and who wants to grow old with her and support her ambitions in both her work and home life?

Instead of clarity, there’s often a lot of second-guessing, defensiveness and push-pull about roles. That’s the part I was questioning.

That’s not about feminism, that’s down to poor communication skills.