To think most “nice guys” only act nice because they want sex?

Most men have sex as the goal, even the nicest are working towards it. Once you see it for what it is, instead of resenting it just join them at their game.

It’s a forum. Asking for feedback on replies isn’t a thing.

I would like to say that you haven’t hurt my feelings one bit. You weren’t rude, didn’t call me names you spoke your mind. Why would I be hurt by that? I however disagree with your comment: “inability to listen” - if that’s directed at me. I do listen, and read and think and adjust accordingly when I feel it’s necessary. I also don’t think you should feel bad for speaking your mind. Obviously you don’t know me - but I’m the “black sheep” of my family because I speak my mind. And I welcome it in others, especially women. I agree educating our boys (and girls) is crucial. And I certainly don’t sit around “in denial”. We actually just watched a puzzling documentary on bbc called “Americans new female right” with my older son on Sunday. It was a bit scary. If you haven’t watched it I would recommend it. I was raised differently than my brother because I was a girl I knew how to do and did all the chores at home. Not my brother. So I know a thing or two about passing down to our children traditional roles and the expectations that come from that. I also didn’t say because I didn’t like something it made it less valid - I simply offered a different perspective- maybe that wasn’t clear, because it certainly reads like you think my perspective is less valid than yours. Again - this might because it’s all written down online and tone and intent can sometimes get lost.

Urgh, my ex was a self-proclaimed nice guy. All it meant was that he pretended to be nice in order to get what he wanted (money, power, sex).

I hear he's single again now, so ladies of Totnes and surrounding areas, beware a bald, short, charming business man trying to get you on his boat.

A ‘fuck boy’ is generalised as much as a ‘nice guy’

men are not good vs bad there are subsets of men but incels are REAL AND RISING

a stereotypical ‘fuck boy’ can be someone who wasn’t that into you but slept with you then didn’t get into a relationship that you were hoping to

women need to be able to talk to each other to protect themselves from these men (as often their parents aren’t actually teaching them anything apart from as per this thread, they believe women are crazy man haters 🙄)

Erm thanks for your feedback that I didn’t ask for? 😂

Yes, if you are talking about men who are actually nice. But Nice Guys™ are not actually nice. I think that's the OP's point. I personally know plenty of men who are nice who probably would be willing to have sex with me if the opportunity arose, but they're not being nice to me on the off chance I'd have sex with them. They're nice because they're just nice people.

Yep. The truth is something that most women are in denial about. The majority of men ultimately view us as a penis receptacle. Some are more obvious than others of course but most you wouldn't even imagine. That ever so nice but geeky colleague in the office, that kind elderly man next door, your best friend's husband that you've known for years? Offer to drop your knickers and see what he says. Bet it's an instant "yes".

its not that it’s not welcome but an obvious inability to listen to what hundreds, thousands if not millions of women are concerned about - deep internal and external misogyny and violence against them. I don’t feel bad about speaking up about it because it might hurt your feelings as a mother, I stand by other women and want to hear what they have to say - so that all parents can raise their boys to do better and not sit in denial. Not liking something doesn’t make it less valid

Hmm. Seems quite specific.

I’m sure no one thinks this either. Likely they’re annoyed at women going for fuck boys when it’s so obvious they are shitty. I always recall getting quite annoyed with then for the same!

All men want sex. "Nice guys" and "bad boys" alike. So isn't better to have a nice man than a bad man?

Of course it’s their prerogative, but it hardly seems ideal if every man is a player who doesn’t treat women well, or endeavours to behave like one,

He wasn’t able to take no for an answer for any reason, for anything related to a female without getting resentful and spiralling into his ‘I’m a nice guy’ pit. He wasn’t a nice guy, we don’t need to analyse him more than that. He was a red flag and women would spot it at some point and dump him. He was and old friend and he just got worse with age.

Well, that’s probably their prerogative too!

My friend: he was not able to accept any knockbacks. He would agonise for hours about why she did or said XY or Z but never able to accept any responsibility for his own part in whatever was going on. He was like this with women from the moment he started talking through to the breakup. His entire gripe was ‘why does this always happen to me? I’m a nice guy. I don’t deserve this’ and ‘all I am is nice and no one appreciates me’ and things like ‘all women want are bad boys and not nice guys like me’. If he bought them flowers he would expect a second date etc

Was his attitude specifically geared to sex, as per OP?

"I'm a nice guy" is a complete red flag.

They're not, and they think they're owed whatever they want.

Perfect then! Im glad im now down with the kids and aware of what a “nice guy” is

God yes. See also self-proclaimed ‘male feminists’ who ironically exhibit the worst cases of misogyny by patronising you and treating you like a child. They’re also almost always dire in bed. “I’m not like the other guys” - no shit.

By all means we should talk about it. I was really taking a general view of what I have seen on MN… I’m on gardening leave at the moment and have more time on my hands than usual. And I have read some really crazy stuff on here. I’m not saying men are all great - again I have read some crazy stuff. Merely pointing out a trend that I have seen written here and again saying that there are still decent men out there because I don’t believe that I’m the only woman who is trying to raise their boys right. But clearly that’s not a welcome perspective here so off I go to do some gardening or something

Yanbu

When a man describes himself as 'a nice guy': RUN. He's probably the worst man on earth.

A nice person doesn't need to label themselves as nice, because it emanates through their behaviour.

I know lots of nice men who are just nice men without any ulterior motive for being nice. Similarly I know lots of nice women.

Some men will use the facade of being a nice man to appeal to women, sure.

What are these nicer, but not so charismatic men supposed to do? Try and emulate the bad/fuck boys?

Yes - thank you for your advise on how to raise my sons (said jokingly). I’m sure there are men like that. What I’m saying is that we need to treat each other independently and not assume. I for example have not been subjected to such behaviour since my early 20s and (to my knowledge) the people I associate with aren’t like that - otherwise I simply wouldn’t.
I want my boys to be like their father. No expectations, truly nice guys, and that they don’t treat woman like they owe them something. It’s really quite simple in theory let’s see how it applies in practice.

Phrases said by a man that are red flags to me:

"I'm a nice guy and I deserve/don't deserve...."
"I don't like being disrespected"

"I'm not racist but....."
"She only got the position because she's a woman...."

I can honestly say that anyone saying any of those things has turned out to be someone I don't want to know.