to not invite my sister for Christmas?

Well, yes, buy her own admission. Her sister spent christmas with just their mother five times in a row presumably so she could have her own nuclear family.

If her children have their own children.She'll probably be excluded. Especially given the new trend that new parents seem to ban visitors for the first 3 months.

It's just so artificial. She's desperate for this alone.Christmas with only her family, but nobody else wants it. Her own daughter doesn't even want to be there.She wants to be with her boyfriend and she's not allowed.

You sound really selfish. Sorry, but you do. Your sister did most of the care, and you begrudge her one Christmas with you because you want a Christmas on your own? I think she's better off not being with you anyway, because she'll most likely be able to sense that you don't want her there anyway. Poor woman.

i think if you are that bothered about drinking on christmas day you should put your sister up in your office.
i am glad this thread has caused you to look at yourself.

christmas fills most of us with all sorts of feelings about family and duty.

Sounds like you did worrying at a distance while your sister did all the hard work, the feeding, washing, wiping of backsides, and yet you say you’re the exhausted one! What a vile excuse for a human being you are. I do hope your sister has the true measure of you b

Or if their partners just like a "nuclear" Christmas without relatives as hangers-on?

OP you keep saying how much you 'desperately' want this as a Christmas for just you and your family. It seems clear that this intensity of emotion and desire is overriding everything else for you. I would question a bit why you want this so much though. I get the impression that you have built a fantasy nuclear family Christmas in your mind. But will it feel as good as the fantasy to do this when you know you are leaving your sister out... and crucially when your DH and kids also know you are leaving her out? You feel guilt now so there's clearly some internal conflict going on. I wonder whether that guilt is going to get in the way of enjoying the type of Christmas that you want, even if, on paper, you get it.

Anyway, I'm another one here who isn't going to legitimise your decision for you. I think a lot of people would struggle to exclude their sister in the circumstances you describe (even if you and your family didn't like her much, which you say you do!). Unless there are extenuating circumstances around someone who doesn't respect you and acts like a dick, I do believe we have a duty as siblings and as humans to show generosity in a situation like this.

I would also point out that if you've allowed yourself to be bullied into extended family Christmases you don't want in the past, that is ultimately on you. For example you mention pressure to have your in-laws but also say that they have lots of other family support around so that it won't fall on you to care for them if they end up with dementia too - clearly then they have other options. I wonder whether you have a difficulty with saying 'no' to people in general, and the thing about this particular Christmas is that your grief has made saying 'no' feel both more urgent and more socially acceptable for you.

Ultimately it is your choice though and who cares really what a bunch of randomers on the internet say? Your life, your Christmas, your sister. One thing I would say is that if you do decide to invite her, you have to do so in the spirit of truly being up for embracing her presence and including her. Just as guilt might taint the nuclear family Christmas you dream of, bitterness could taint your sister's invite and your whole family's Christmas if you let it. Sadists and massacists aside, no one likes to be invited somewhere when it is then made clear that they are not really wanted with an open heart.

This!!!

Good! Make sure its a long hard look at yourself.

Your poor sister. When you fleetingly say that she took on most of the care of your mum those of us who don’t have children who were also put in this position know what that really means. It is hard work to care for someone with dementia - to say the least. It puts a strain on your own mental health and if you are alone the strain is that much worse because you have no one supporting you. If she hadn’t done the lion’s share of caring your life would have been so much worse, trust me. And after all that you are planning to abandon her at Xmas the worst time of year to be alone? It is time for you to step up and make her feel good for a change.

The way threads like this usually go is that the op doesn’t get the answer they seek and resort to telling us how vile the sister is just to turn the tide of sympathy. I hope that this thread isn’t going to go that way.

Do you actually know how much of the caring responsibility your sister took on/away from you? All those years you prioritised your own ‘family’ who you live with all year will have been seen and judged by your own children. Let’s hope they haven’t learnt their family values from that. Your sister did multiple Christmases on her own with your mum and you won’t support her for the first year.

This isn’t self care, it’s selfishness wrapped up in it as an excuse.

Your sister probably won’t hold it against you as you say she is kind and loves you all and you all ‘love’ her which almost makes it worse. Awful, awful people.

Where is the harm in having her Christmas Eve until the day after Boxing Day then you all use the inbetween days and New Year as a close family.

Your poor sister, she may be regretting her decisions this New Year.

Everyone I know personally that does the whole ‘we just want all of Christmas in our little bubble’ excluding family and visitors (unless complicated family relationships involved or SEN needs for kids) are all selfish in the rest of their lives…..or have a controlling man as the father/husband…. sorry but totally my experience…

Am I the only one secretly hoping 4 ghosts turn up on Christmas Eve?

Hi OP what is it about having her visit that you don't like?

You're saying that you want a family Christmas with just the kids to make up for all the ones that you missed out on when they were llyoung. But its not going to make up for it, they don't believe in santa, won't be up early desperate to open presents etc.

What is it about hosting people that you hate, maybe if you work on that and address it, it it might help. We host Xmas and don't change much eg still hang around in pj's til lunch time. If they're up, they can see the kids opened presents but if not then tough. Everyone gets their own drinks / snacks and we have a very easy lunch so I'm only cooking one meal, which is mostly prepped beforehand. We play lots of games which are better with more people etc. If it's the driving that you don't like - book taxis, rope the kids in to give lifts, find a b and b within walking distance, or she sleeps on your floor. If it's because you all just want a casual curry but she will expect a full roast then just tell her that's what you're inviting her to. Set expectations early. If its just you don't want anyone else there...how exactly will one extra person take away you seeing your kids 'for the last time'?

Well, you might. What if all your kids move thousands of miles away?

I would plan to spend a weekend with her in December and have an early low key Christmas where you exchange gifts and eat easy to prep party food etc. If she has a friend who would want to spend Christmas Day with her, then that's probably a better option for her than you trying to hide the fact you don't want to host.

Oh jesus I missed that one.

She wouldn't let her eldest daughter who is 21 presumably spend christmas as she chose.

Yeah, the just us thing doesn't work much longer. Op once adjust us christmas. Just the five of them. She's failing to take into account that her children are adults and their life.No longer revolves around the nuclear family that she created. Their branching out and living their own lives, which they should do.

Instead of celebrating it, she's not allowing her eldest to spend christmas elsewhere. This won't end.Well, the older the children get, they'll spend christmas with their mother but they will be more and more resentful.

So she's banning her sister from attending and banning her eldest from spending it with her partner. I mean who does she think she is.

So sorry for your losses. I can sympathise as I have a sister who is truly lovely but whose visits leave me drained, I can imagine feeling unable to cope with that over Christmas when recently bereaved.

I think in my family it would work to invite her very specifically for something that is near to but not Christmas, in the same breath. So eg "I'd like to invite you to come and stay with us for a couple of days over New Year, we are going to have a special dinner on New Years Eve to say farewell to the old yrar and I'd love you to be there. Our plans for Christmas Day are incompatible with having a guest but I want to spend some time with you over the Christmas break"

Having this conversation now is important because then she has time to plan and make her own arrangements.

And you say you think people should live with the consequences of their choices… but she allowed you to have less time with your mum because of YOUR CHOICES. But you can’t do that for her because of fecking Christmas! Beyond selfish.

But why is it MY FAULT when she CHOSE not to have kids?

So you use her not having kids as the reason she did the majority of care for your mother and why she hosted your mother for Christmas for the last five years, and now you're also using it as the reason you shouldn't invite her for Christmas. You really like it both ways don't you.

Well to be honest op, it's decisions like this that help determine what we become.

If your dc like her I really can't see the big issue. She doesn't sound too difficult given she's happy to stay in a hotel etc. In fact she sounds absolutely lovely and you were lucky to have her in your life when you needed support for your mum.

Who knows op: your dc may all get partners who have your attitude and you may be alone and needing your DSis for Christmases in the not too distant future. What goes around and all that ...

I'd be tempted to say you would like to ask her but warn her it might be quite low-key. I mean you are cooking a meal anyway aren't you? She's not expecting you to entertain her with a Christmas can-can.💃

I don't mean to sound harsh OP but what makes you think your sister wants to spend Christmas with you? Asking genuinely. There is no way she hasn't picked up on how you feel, and surely she must have twigged she's not very welcome given you haven't invited her since 2020. Again not meant to be nasty, just factual given what you told us. Maybe this perspective will take some of the pressure off for you?

'I wouldn't let my eldest spend Christmas with her partner. She lives at home as she's only just finished uni. She knows she's expected to be home with us'

Oh op. Lighten up and get a grip. 'Wouldn't let'. Your kids are adults let them do as they please at Christmas. Maybe they want a relaxed Christmas for a change?

I wonder if there's another thread from someone saying after looking after her dm with dementia who has sadly died she can't bear spending Christmas with her entitled, selfish sister and how can she decline without sounding rude.

I've often seen the women complain constantly about the burdens of raising children. If it's not sleep it's school, it's what they're eating, not eating. Then when its teenage years, it's something else school refusing, rude and chatback.

But primarily, the complaints are in the formative years.When they're still very much dependent on care. And I get it, kids are difficult.Everybody knows it. In fact, everybody knows it to the extent I can't believe most women are surprised when they end up with this screaming baby that deprives them asleep and is constantly on them. What did you think it was going to be like...

I'm getting off point, but the point I was trying to make was this lots of people on here, and in real life, say it takes a village to raise a child and you need the village.

But then what do the mother's like her contribute to the village. You want to take from the village but don't contribute to it. You want the free child care and aunties and granny babysitting your children for you, so you can have a break but you don't want to give anything back.

In the specific example of this op, she's taken from the village but gives nothing back. She left her sister to spend every single christmas with their mother and do most of the care for her. Then when the mother's dead and the sister's divorcing social be alone, where is her village? There's nobody there for her.

Opi p used the village to dump her mother on, and now she's not willing to reciprocate to host her sister who'll be alone.

Being part of a village works both ways if you want to take from it and say you need help with your children and your emotional stress, then you better, provide it back. Be part of the village and invite that lonely relative, who has no one to spend christmas or their birthday with.

Wow…. I have RTFT now and as sad as I am for your loss, and as much as I also love a quiet Christmas, I am truly shocked. Your sister sounds like a really decent person. You talk about past Christmases as if you have done something uniquely generous. You know that most of us do what you did? It’s no big deal? I really hope your sister has more generous, big hearted friends that will welcome her with open arms and care about everything she has gone through this year.

It's not your fault. But probably just as well for you she didn't. If she'd been caring for or consumed by her own family when your mother was ill, who'd have cared for her then?

I never understand this obsession with Christmas and who makes the guest list cut. Obviously you can invite who you want but it might be the decent thing to do after everything your sister gave up to be the main carer rather than judging her choice not to have children!
Also yabu and controlling regarding your eldest odd that you think she needs to ask permission to spend Christmas elsewhere