Black people don’t really matter but the loss of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy.

They are offered 'mentorship, professional development, outreach and scholarship', to give them a more level playing field with white people. Very different to Kirk saying black people are underqualified.

Being concerned about adding additional people to our population and asking questions about the viability of supporting them within already stretched services is a very long way from the views being expressed on this thread. The concerns you've described are being used as a trojan horse to reintroduce racism back into the mainstream. Immigration has barely had a mention on this thread, its all been about white versus POC.

What do you mean 'ourselves'? Immigrants pay taxes, should they not be using the NHS? 25% of the NHS is staffed by non-white people. If you deported them, the NHS would collapse so the ambulance waiting times would be even worse.

The DEI doesn't say they are less competent just they they are own affordable more opportunities and openings based on sex and colour.

Hiring of pilots:

"Alaska Airlines has committed to hiring more Black female pilots by partnering with Sisters of the Skies, a nonprofit committed to supporting future black aviators through mentorship, professional development, outreach and scholarship.28 Feb 2024"

"Black Pilots of America, Inc. (BPA) is a non-profit, 501(c)(3), charitable organization with a nationwide mission to introduce and educate underserved and underrepresented youths to the exciting world of aviation. BPA also promotes aviation excellence and safety among its membership."

https://www.captechu.edu/blog/new-pilot-diversity-initiative-aims-level-playing-field-women-people-of-color#:~:text=Alaska%20Airlines%20has%20committed%20to,professional%20development%2C%20outreach%20and%20scholarship.

I have no idea about what CK said about black pilots. Ive had a really quick.google and found numerous articles on DEI iniatives.

I'm not sure this is what I see. For example, blue collar jobs like trades and construction command higher average salaries than office/graduate jobs nowadays. Average trade salary was £45k and average graduate salary £35k in last study I read.

I think the issue is that things are actually far from utopian. There was a poster on a recent thread talking about how her sister was in a serious crash with a lorry. She was lying at the roadside with both feet detached from her body and the ambulance service said they could only dispatch an ambulance if the victim was unconscious. Thankfully the man who had called them had the sense to call back and say she was now unconscious, otherwise she'd have died.

No doubt an extreme example but it's pretty standard now for old people that have a fall to lie on the floor in pain for 12 hours with a broken hip before they can be attended to. Adding more and more people is only going to worsen matters. Especially demographics that on average have almost twice as many children as western women and arrive needing housed, supported, etc.

Most people would help somebody if the personal cost wasn't untenable. However, many now feel we're at the point where we need to either prioritise ourselves or accept that things won't ever return to any semblance of how they once were. Others don't yet feel this way, but they often seem to be those not at the pointy end of it all. Obv I'm speaking broadly here and there will be exceptions.

I completely agree. I have repeatedly asked people saying things on this thread i disagree with to share the evidence that has formed their view. Not one person has provided any.
If when asked for the evidence behind their doubt of the competence of women working 'on planes' for example, people cannot provide any proof their doubts are valid, then I'd hope that would give them pause to reflect on whether they were correct. However this does tend to be a triumph of hope over experience.

What you’re saying is that if someone like @BollyKnickerz says black people didn’t help a victim of a stabbing, then we should say ‘what experiences led you to believe this?’. But people have tried this and got no response. So what you’re saying is that we shouldn’t question what Bolly is saying because that shuts them down?

Or when posters like NaicePanda says Kirk was saying black pilots were hired to fill a diversity quota, we shouldn’t say they’re wrong? Because posters like her have been repeatedly asked for evidence but haven’t provided any. So we shouldn’t ask for evidence because that shuts them down?

White people can also be immigrants, the 2 things are not mutually exclusive. My husbands family are white and immigrants and experienced discrimination - although I'm sure I will soon be told that is impossible.

Where have I said POC can't exercise free speech? My ongoing point is that we all have the right to exercise free speech. I have never told anyone that they aren't a victim of racism - as that would be impossible, I have not lived their life nor walked in their shoes. I have only taken issue with people saying they know my experience well enough to be able to say I or my extended family have never experienced any discrimination.

I didn't say the root cause was a problem with POC. I said that one of the root causes for the rise in more extreme views was people not feeling heard, feeling that their views and needs were somehow seen as not valid and are taboo. So they then take these views into more extreme echochambers, and what started as mild discontent becomes amplified into anger, frustration and extremism.

We need to be able to have open conversations about how we can become more cohesive as a society, and this requires an ability to not shout people down and call names when we disagree with their views, but to explore the root causes of those views. I think very few people have their opinions changed by just being told 'you are wrong' 'X is right listen to them' and much more is acheived by saying 'OK, what experiences led you to believe this, and unpicking this'.

However, this thread now seems to be dominated by people telling others they are wrong and that their views and experiences are not valid.

If you read this thread, you will see that the US air industry is not employing under qualified black pilots, they’re giving more black people the opportunity to learn in air academies to bring them in some semblance of an equal footing for opportunities with white people.

Kirk and Trump cynically exploited this to claim that some black pilots are under qualified.

I find it peculiar that you didn’t fact check what Kirk was claiming and just swallowed it whole.

I find it peculiar that people believe the status quo results in the best person for the job. People concerned about supporting under represented groups on to training courses so they can gain qualifications for jobs never seem to question whether wealthy white men are in their roles because they're the best people for the job.
Are you not equally concerned that wealth can purchase an education that masks inate mediocrity? Or that old money/old school tie connections result in jobs for the (white) boys?

Before you go, can you tell us how we should describe you when you keep denying that one of the people who helped that poor woman was a black man? What other word would describe your behaviour?

I won't be engaging with this thread any longer.

The predictable cries of "racist" have come about as well as name calling and insults of intelligence. (I'm not exactly surprised as this is usually what happens when someone dares to point out holes in the "correct" narrative)

I haven't got a racist bone in my body. But I also will not succumb to the pressure to dare not to raise any questions of the current narrative of CRT as fact or allow the double standards of being allowed to direct slurs and slander at white people as one big homogenous mass.

I won't stay on a thread just to have the disgusting insult of "racist" thrown at me. (This is indeed what has silenced people and led to yet more division) And because of people like this : we will end up with a reform government and it'll only get worse.

I thought about reporting your comments (you know who you are ). But decided it was best to let them stand so that people who are reading are in no doubt what happens when opinions are raised that question the trope or pick apart assumptions.

This is basically what I was trying to say.

I agree, context is everything. He was talking about DEI, and said he wanted the best pilot flying the plane, not someone who had been taken on to fulfil a diversity quota. I find it peculiar that people would get upset by that, wouldn't we all want to be flown by the best person for the job?

Just because a man who made his name and living from debate was able to get the better of young people in a setting he controlled, doesn't mean his opinions would hold water if he'd had the courage to pit himself against older wiser people with more life experience and similar debating skills.
There are people on this thread who have demonstrated they would have the ability to shoot that argument down very quickly. Others to form a robust rebuttal given access to relevent evidence.
Rendering a young student without similar experience of quick fire public debate temporarily non plussed does not make CK arguments sound, simply a manipulative individual using stooges to further his agenda.

I think some white people seem to want their version of a perfect utopia where immigrants work in blue collar jobs and pay taxes and nurse and care for the white elderly, but never need to use services like council housing or free healthcare themselves, never commit crimes and stay silent whilst white people exercise free speech, so that immigrants should be seen but not heard.

I won't ever accept that people should be happy to take sound bites and form opinions from them. You can scoff all you like but I am correct on this: only good comes from looking deeper into things.

We live in a world of social media clips, and Charlie Kirk was better than most at it.

Didnt know of Charlie Kirk until he died. What did he say about black people?

He was reported as saying he didn’t believe in empathy, when what he actually said was that he felt sympathy was a more appropriate word to use.

I did see one clip where a college student said his dad said that CK was a racist. CK asked the student to cite support for that & he couldn’t. CK then went on to point out the projects he had worked on to support black people in inner cities and asked what the student’s dad had done.

I can’t get my head around CK as a person other than he appears to have been conservative and religious.

We won't address the root cause of disadvantaged people in the UK by blaming it on racism against white people.
Just because some white people believe that POC have been racist towards them doesn't make racism towards white people the cause of generational poverty, inequality of opportunity based on social class and generational wealth.
It doesn't make it the cause of the housing and cost of living crises and the failings of the education and health and social services. Or of the abuse and exploitation of women. It doesn't mean planes flown by black pilots have fallen out of the sky. Where people have argued otherwise, I have repeatedly asked them to provide proof. No one has.
I completely agree we should address the root cause of these views, but the root cause isn't a problem with POC.

‘Free speech’ isn’t applicable to all apparantly. Spout whatever racist, bigoted ignorant nonsense you like but name it for what it is, and that’s suddenly not okay.

If you don’t want to be called a racist, don’t be one. It’s that simple.

Yep, and the insistence that we ignore what our eyes see, which is that one of the people helping the poor victim was a black man. And if we do point out, we’re ‘the problem’.

Comparing the plight of black women, who are one of the most disenfranchised groups in the UK, to white influencers who choose to travel first class to be shat on for £30,000 is a false equivalence. Is someone forcing the influencers to travel there?