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Black people don’t really matter but the loss of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy.

412 replies

QOrion · 14/09/2025 15:11

I posted this in response to a short thread on Feminism and Women’s Rights but I want more people to see it. I want to have my say, even if I’m late to the conversation, and even if most people don’t care. I don’t expect many replies but maybe I’ll make some people think about what I’m saying.

I guess none of you are black. It’s the only way you can go out of your way to highlight this man’s ’virtues’. I don’t believe anyone is born bad or is irredeemably bad, I guess that’s my Christian upbringing, but I also don’t understand the deification of this man and the need for many people on this website to paint him in the best possible light. He’s not the first public figure to be shot and killed, even this year. If those deaths were even mentioned on Mumsnet, they certainly weren’t given much attention.

I’d never heard of Charlie Kirk before he was shot and his death had little impact on me. I have serious issues in my own life, people are shot and killed in America every day and there is a lot of suffering going on around the world, a lot of atrocities committed. It didn’t seem to be an incident that affected me in any significant way, even when I discovered his position on transgender ideology. I share essentially the same position on transgender ideology with many people I don’t want to be associated with.

Then I read his comments about black people. I can’t wax lyrical about how Charlie Kirk was ‘decent’ and ‘respectful’. How, ‘Isn’t it nice he gave his political opponents a platform’. And I can’t feel any kind of kinship with people who, knowing what he’s said about black people, still feel compelled to highlight his good qualities.

Let me be clear: I don’t believe he should have been killed. I don’t even support the death penalty in any circumstance, so I can hardly support Charlie Kirk being killed. But I am learning, not for the first time, that Mumsnetters in general, and users of this subforum (FWR) tend to ignore black people and our concerns, until we are useful. Whether that is taking cases to court when much is made of the claimant’s ethnic heritage (why?) or the perennial ‘transgenderism is womanface, it’s offensive like blackface’.

You have no idea and I think it is possible you will never understand just how much slights about my ethnic heritage cut deep. Slights to my womanhood are pretty trivial in comparison. I think this is something white women will never understand. So, you go on singing the virtues of Charlie Kirk. We’ll be here the next time you need to exploit us for your own purposes.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
JHound · 15/09/2025 10:07

I mostly agree (except I unfortunately was aware of him before and was aware that like many on the US Christian Right he was weirdly obsessed
with black Americans.) This is a man who argued life was better for black Americans before 1940 (because fewer parents were separated….rolls eyes).

But I also think you are likely wasting your breath.

BollyKnickerz · 15/09/2025 10:07

KimberleyClark · 15/09/2025 10:05

The poster misspelled the name. I found it when I googled black man stabs white girl and it’s Iryna Zarutska.

it is shocking though. Poor girl.

Apologies if I spelt her name incorrectly. My mistake. Thanks for the correction.

I really think people need to all take a look at that video. It's shocking and opens up lots of questions. That poor poor girl.

KimberleyClark · 15/09/2025 10:05

BollyKnickerz · 15/09/2025 09:42

You seriously can't find a thing on it ? Says it all.

The poster misspelled the name. I found it when I googled black man stabs white girl and it’s Iryna Zarutska.

it is shocking though. Poor girl.

JMSA · 15/09/2025 10:02

BollyKnickerz · 15/09/2025 09:40

What about George Floyd - a good for nothing career criminal. I'd bet good money you wouldn't dare voice that you couldn't care less that he's dead.

You owe me a tenner.

SpaceRaccoon · 15/09/2025 10:02

juldan · 15/09/2025 07:45

It is very clear. OP feels uncomfortable that people glorify a man who was openly very racist among other things.
He shouldn’t have been assassinated as there is no place for political violence in civilised world. However, the murder does not negate the fact that he was despicable.

Hitler is dead as well. Should we start threads expressing sadness about the fact that he committed suicide? Of course not. Just because someone is dead it doesn’t mean he/she wasn’t a bad person.

But he wasn't Hitler, was he? He was a man with opinions some disagreed strongly with, but these ridiculous comparisons are what emboldened his killing.

BollyKnickerz · 15/09/2025 10:01

nomas · 15/09/2025 09:55

The killer was still in the carriage, but out of the camera view.

I’ve been abused and threatened on a bus in the UK, all the other passengers all stared gormlessly. Not one person intervened. I was upset at the time but then I read about the bystander effect and understand it now.

I see that you're twisting it to all fit the "nicest" version of what the truth could be.

Now, if this was reversed : black refugee victim, white perpetrator, all white fellow passengers: do you honestly and truthfully believe the answers would be similar to yours on a post about it?

Try and answer that honestly.

nomas · 15/09/2025 09:55

BollyKnickerz · 15/09/2025 08:50

What about when the attacker left? Hmmm? The side glance from the woman sitting adjacent to her. As The young girl gave her a pleading look. Then the woman got up and left.

The killer was still in the carriage, but out of the camera view.

I’ve been abused and threatened on a bus in the UK, all the other passengers all stared gormlessly. Not one person intervened. I was upset at the time but then I read about the bystander effect and understand it now.

Tandora · 15/09/2025 09:53

OP you are 100% NBU xxx

BollyKnickerz · 15/09/2025 09:42

KimberleyClark · 15/09/2025 09:42

Please provide a link to this news story. I’ve googled that name and can’t find a thing.

You seriously can't find a thing on it ? Says it all.

KimberleyClark · 15/09/2025 09:42

BollyKnickerz · 14/09/2025 19:48

Unless I've missed it (which is possible?) I've not seen one thread on the poor young white girl in America who was stabbed senselessly and so violently by a black stranger and was left to die , looking terrified, and clutched herself in a ball until she collapsed and died in a pool of blood on the floor. All her fellow passengers (all black ) did nothing.

Now: we can pretend not to notice things or characteristics. Or we can start having very painful conversations. If the shoe was on the other foot and that was a black refugee stabbed by a white man and all the white passengers did nothing: we all know there would be anarchy.

So I don't think the divisional perpetual victim minority stance is helping cohesion is it.

We're all bloody victims of each other it seems.

Iryna Zharuvska I believe her name was.

Please provide a link to this news story. I’ve googled that name and can’t find a thing.

Swiftie1878 · 15/09/2025 09:41

You haven’t actually said what you are upset about. What did he say about black people that you are unhappy about?

BollyKnickerz · 15/09/2025 09:40

JMSA · 15/09/2025 09:34

I couldn’t care less that he’s dead.

What about George Floyd - a good for nothing career criminal. I'd bet good money you wouldn't dare voice that you couldn't care less that he's dead.

AliceMaforethought · 15/09/2025 09:37

SpaceRaccoon · 15/09/2025 04:24

OP a man has just been publicly assassinated, leaving behind a young family. It's not all about you.

Oh FFS. What a silly comment.

JMSA · 15/09/2025 09:34

I couldn’t care less that he’s dead.

SpanishBaguette · 15/09/2025 09:33

Are you serious? There were whole school assemblies about George Floyd.

AliceMaforethought · 15/09/2025 09:33

5128gap · 15/09/2025 09:31

I agree with the OP.

Thank you. I am glad to see some people have sense. If I'm honest, a lot of the reason I can't get behind the FWR board isn't because I don't agree about some of what they say. It's because they are willing to embrace the very worst of values because they agree on that one issue.

5128gap · 15/09/2025 09:31

AliceMaforethought · 15/09/2025 09:26

You're 100% correct, OP. Good luck having anyone acknowledge that on here, though.

I agree with the OP.

AliceMaforethought · 15/09/2025 09:26

You're 100% correct, OP. Good luck having anyone acknowledge that on here, though.

queenofarles · 15/09/2025 08:52

Barnbrack · 15/09/2025 07:49

Out of interest what would you have done when you've just seen someone murdered in front of you on a moving train and the killer is stood there, knife still in hand? Because I've examined my conscience from every angle and I might have stayed rooted terrified in my seat. Because I don't wanna die too.

Crime rates in Charlotte is higher than national Average, I get that it’s scary and dangerous to leap out and tend to someone while the killer is still walking around, the three or four passengers still did nothing when other people came over and helped , couple of black men and one white woman later came over and helped .
I really hope people don’t make it sound as though all black , south Asians, East Asians, middle easterners or Hispanics are all like that.
America is so broken right now, it’s very concerning. Hate and discrimination is not even being disguised any more it’s out in the open.

Plastictreees · 15/09/2025 08:52

5128gap · 15/09/2025 08:48

There have been some very challenging threads on this subject OP, and I too have been shocked by some of the views expressed.
I think that there has been a lot of people from the US on the boards who are supporters of CK, and that the emotional outpouring from them has emboldened those with racist views.
The first group cannot be debated, because they speak from a position of deeply rooted beliefs that it can be hard for people from the UK to understand, and they use devices in debate that make exchange of views impossible.
They are exhausting to be on the other side of, and other than one or two tenacious posters, who have my respect, people have tended to step away if they disagree because its like banging ones head against a wall.
There are other people who are speaking from fear. They see a man shot by someone we now believe has a link to the trans community, and fear this is another manifestation of the fight to silence GC people, like themselves.
Its been a difficult few days on these threads and I can only imagine how this has left you feeling OP. I'm a white woman, and I agree with you.

👏👏👏

BollyKnickerz · 15/09/2025 08:50

Barnbrack · 15/09/2025 07:49

Out of interest what would you have done when you've just seen someone murdered in front of you on a moving train and the killer is stood there, knife still in hand? Because I've examined my conscience from every angle and I might have stayed rooted terrified in my seat. Because I don't wanna die too.

What about when the attacker left? Hmmm? The side glance from the woman sitting adjacent to her. As The young girl gave her a pleading look. Then the woman got up and left.

5128gap · 15/09/2025 08:48

There have been some very challenging threads on this subject OP, and I too have been shocked by some of the views expressed.
I think that there has been a lot of people from the US on the boards who are supporters of CK, and that the emotional outpouring from them has emboldened those with racist views.
The first group cannot be debated, because they speak from a position of deeply rooted beliefs that it can be hard for people from the UK to understand, and they use devices in debate that make exchange of views impossible.
They are exhausting to be on the other side of, and other than one or two tenacious posters, who have my respect, people have tended to step away if they disagree because its like banging ones head against a wall.
There are other people who are speaking from fear. They see a man shot by someone we now believe has a link to the trans community, and fear this is another manifestation of the fight to silence GC people, like themselves.
Its been a difficult few days on these threads and I can only imagine how this has left you feeling OP. I'm a white woman, and I agree with you.

Barnbrack · 15/09/2025 07:49

BollyKnickerz · 14/09/2025 19:48

Unless I've missed it (which is possible?) I've not seen one thread on the poor young white girl in America who was stabbed senselessly and so violently by a black stranger and was left to die , looking terrified, and clutched herself in a ball until she collapsed and died in a pool of blood on the floor. All her fellow passengers (all black ) did nothing.

Now: we can pretend not to notice things or characteristics. Or we can start having very painful conversations. If the shoe was on the other foot and that was a black refugee stabbed by a white man and all the white passengers did nothing: we all know there would be anarchy.

So I don't think the divisional perpetual victim minority stance is helping cohesion is it.

We're all bloody victims of each other it seems.

Iryna Zharuvska I believe her name was.

Out of interest what would you have done when you've just seen someone murdered in front of you on a moving train and the killer is stood there, knife still in hand? Because I've examined my conscience from every angle and I might have stayed rooted terrified in my seat. Because I don't wanna die too.

juldan · 15/09/2025 07:45

SpaceRaccoon · 15/09/2025 04:41

The man's ideas must continue to be debated and pushed back against. That's free speech in a free society.

Yes. But I can't quite aee what point the OP is actually making here.

It is very clear. OP feels uncomfortable that people glorify a man who was openly very racist among other things.
He shouldn’t have been assassinated as there is no place for political violence in civilised world. However, the murder does not negate the fact that he was despicable.

Hitler is dead as well. Should we start threads expressing sadness about the fact that he committed suicide? Of course not. Just because someone is dead it doesn’t mean he/she wasn’t a bad person.

Insertfootnote · 15/09/2025 07:38

Charlie was a devout Catholic so was deeply against abortion. He believed in traditional Christian values and the importance of the family. That doesn't make him a misogynist. I'm pretty sure if he'd been a devout Muslim with the same views his murder would be condemned by those same posters. But because he was a Christian white guy then he must be a nasty person.
I've listened to Charlie Kirk for years and not once seen him be anything but kind and respectful towards black people, gay people, trans people etc. Sometimes he presented statistics and research they didn't like but that doesn't make him racist or transphobic or whatever.