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Black people don’t really matter but the loss of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy.

412 replies

QOrion · 14/09/2025 15:11

I posted this in response to a short thread on Feminism and Women’s Rights but I want more people to see it. I want to have my say, even if I’m late to the conversation, and even if most people don’t care. I don’t expect many replies but maybe I’ll make some people think about what I’m saying.

I guess none of you are black. It’s the only way you can go out of your way to highlight this man’s ’virtues’. I don’t believe anyone is born bad or is irredeemably bad, I guess that’s my Christian upbringing, but I also don’t understand the deification of this man and the need for many people on this website to paint him in the best possible light. He’s not the first public figure to be shot and killed, even this year. If those deaths were even mentioned on Mumsnet, they certainly weren’t given much attention.

I’d never heard of Charlie Kirk before he was shot and his death had little impact on me. I have serious issues in my own life, people are shot and killed in America every day and there is a lot of suffering going on around the world, a lot of atrocities committed. It didn’t seem to be an incident that affected me in any significant way, even when I discovered his position on transgender ideology. I share essentially the same position on transgender ideology with many people I don’t want to be associated with.

Then I read his comments about black people. I can’t wax lyrical about how Charlie Kirk was ‘decent’ and ‘respectful’. How, ‘Isn’t it nice he gave his political opponents a platform’. And I can’t feel any kind of kinship with people who, knowing what he’s said about black people, still feel compelled to highlight his good qualities.

Let me be clear: I don’t believe he should have been killed. I don’t even support the death penalty in any circumstance, so I can hardly support Charlie Kirk being killed. But I am learning, not for the first time, that Mumsnetters in general, and users of this subforum (FWR) tend to ignore black people and our concerns, until we are useful. Whether that is taking cases to court when much is made of the claimant’s ethnic heritage (why?) or the perennial ‘transgenderism is womanface, it’s offensive like blackface’.

You have no idea and I think it is possible you will never understand just how much slights about my ethnic heritage cut deep. Slights to my womanhood are pretty trivial in comparison. I think this is something white women will never understand. So, you go on singing the virtues of Charlie Kirk. We’ll be here the next time you need to exploit us for your own purposes.

OP posts:
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TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:44

nomas · 15/09/2025 11:39

If you did only mean to say that Iryna didn't get coverage even though she's white, why mention she was killed by a black man?

Charlie Kirk was a white man from a Republican family killed by a white man from a Republican family.

Edited

The OPs thread title is literally:

"Black people don’t really matter but the loss of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy. "

I.E. black people don't matter but white Charlie Kirk does.... it's right there on the title.

I argued he got the publicly because he was FAMOUS not because he was white. Simple as that.

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 15/09/2025 11:43

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:39

There are more graphic videos which shouldn't be shared here with sound. Is it so hard to believe that a mentally ill man might also be racist?

As I've repeatedly said I used her killing to illustrate the point that CK threads and coverage was due to him being famous not because he was white. The OP thinks CK had publicity due to being white.

I’ve heard him say “I got that white girl”.
No bionic hearing needed

These videos can be found on X. I feel desperately angry that people are so pre occupied with being right in they’re happy to deny the very obvious motives of the violent death of a young woman

Id also like to point out to people the death happened a month ago. we didn’t hear right away because the information was suppressed. Think about why

JHound · 15/09/2025 11:42

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:39

There are more graphic videos which shouldn't be shared here with sound. Is it so hard to believe that a mentally ill man might also be racist?

As I've repeatedly said I used her killing to illustrate the point that CK threads and coverage was due to him being famous not because he was white. The OP thinks CK had publicity due to being white.

Where has OP said that?

5128gap · 15/09/2025 11:41

SpaceRaccoon · 15/09/2025 10:02

But he wasn't Hitler, was he? He was a man with opinions some disagreed strongly with, but these ridiculous comparisons are what emboldened his killing.

Can you prove that? Because all we know for sure here is that a white American man killed another white American man, and because the only person in a position to explain why has evoked his rights to silence, at present, this is for reasons unknown. As far as I'm aware we have no idea whether the killer disagreed with all of CKs views, some of them, or indeed none of them and killed him for reasons other than his views. So, can you explain why you are linking the views of a black woman in the UK and those who agree with her that CK was racist, with the circumstances that caused the death of a white man at the hands of another white man?

nomas · 15/09/2025 11:41

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:39

There are more graphic videos which shouldn't be shared here with sound. Is it so hard to believe that a mentally ill man might also be racist?

As I've repeatedly said I used her killing to illustrate the point that CK threads and coverage was due to him being famous not because he was white. The OP thinks CK had publicity due to being white.

So you've shared the graphic video of her in the lead up to her stabbing and when she was bleeding to death, but you don't want to share a video of what he says? What does he say? You can just type it.

JHound · 15/09/2025 11:41

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 15/09/2025 11:40

And about the death of Charlie Kirk - it’s not that they’re sad of the loss of this particular person. It’s about the violent cessation of someone exercising their free speech. It’s an attack on us all, an attack on anyone whose views don’t aligns with a violent person’s. It’s terrifying. I agree with Charlie Kirk on transgender views. I’m not a bad person to worthy of death but many people believe so. We should all be alarmed about his death no matter what you thought of his views

We don’t have a motive yet

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 15/09/2025 11:40

And about the death of Charlie Kirk - it’s not that they’re sad of the loss of this particular person. It’s about the violent cessation of someone exercising their free speech. It’s an attack on us all, an attack on anyone whose views don’t aligns with a violent person’s. It’s terrifying. I agree with Charlie Kirk on transgender views. I’m not a bad person to worthy of death but many people believe so. We should all be alarmed about his death no matter what you thought of his views

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:39

nomas · 15/09/2025 11:35

What does he say? You must have bionic ears because the CCTV doesn't have sound.

I have seen the video, it's hugely distressing. But using her murder as race bait fodder helps no one.

There are more graphic videos which shouldn't be shared here with sound. Is it so hard to believe that a mentally ill man might also be racist?

As I've repeatedly said I used her killing to illustrate the point that CK threads and coverage was due to him being famous not because he was white. The OP thinks CK had publicity due to being white.

nomas · 15/09/2025 11:39

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:36

I never said they did!

I used the example of her killing to illustrate that Charlie Kirk didn't have lots of threads because he was white (as she was with no mn threads) but because CK was famous.

If you did only mean to say that Iryna didn't get coverage even though she's white, why mention she was killed by a black man?

Charlie Kirk was a white man from a Republican family killed by a white man from a Republican family.

JHound · 15/09/2025 11:38

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 15/09/2025 11:36

As for Iryna Zarutska, i don’t care what anyone says, if she was the only black woman on a bus full of white people, who was stabbed by a white man then bled to death as white people watched and her killer said “I got the black girl”, there’d be total uproar and demands for bloods. There’d be riots. Nobody would be making excuses for her killer. But apparently racism only works one way

Edited

There has been a black woman stabbed to death on a bus in the USA by a white man and there was not “total uproar”.

And a black male passenger did go to assist Zarutska after she was attacked.

nomas · 15/09/2025 11:37

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 15/09/2025 11:36

As for Iryna Zarutska, i don’t care what anyone says, if she was the only black woman on a bus full of white people, who was stabbed by a white man then bled to death as white people watched and her killer said “I got the black girl”, there’d be total uproar and demands for bloods. There’d be riots. Nobody would be making excuses for her killer. But apparently racism only works one way

Edited

Why do you ignore that one of the people who ran from another carriage to help the victim (after the killer had left) was a black man?

And how did you hear him say 'I got the white girl' when there is no sound on the CCTV?

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 15/09/2025 11:36

As for Iryna Zarutska, i don’t care what anyone says, if she was the only black woman on a bus full of white people, who was stabbed by a white man then bled to death as white people watched and her killer said “I got the black girl”, there’d be total uproar and demands for bloods. There’d be riots. Nobody would be making excuses for her killer. But apparently racism only works one way

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:36

nomas · 15/09/2025 11:33

Yes, because the mental health care in the US is dire. His mother has said he's a schizophrenic who she has tried to get committed into a psychiatric hospital for years, without success.

They didn't let him go because he was black.

I never said they did!

I used the example of her killing to illustrate that Charlie Kirk didn't have lots of threads because he was white (as she was with no mn threads) but because CK was famous.

nomas · 15/09/2025 11:35

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:32

Go watch the videos online of this crime. Its appalling. What he says. The poor young woman did nothing, was totally defenceless, she died alone although surrounded by people who either didn't realise what happened, or were scared to help her or didn't care. After she was on the floor almost dead some people ran from a different carriage to her.

What does he say? You must have bionic ears because the CCTV doesn't have sound.

I have seen the video, it's hugely distressing. But using her murder as race bait fodder helps no one.

nomas · 15/09/2025 11:33

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:28

No, it wasn't meant that way. He was allowed to walk free despite knowledge that he was mentally ill and dangerous. He is in custody now.

Yes, because the mental health care in the US is dire. His mother has said he's a schizophrenic who she has tried to get committed into a psychiatric hospital for years, without success.

They didn't let him go because he was black.

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:32

nomas · 15/09/2025 11:25

Your post implied he has been allowed to walk free after this murder. Were you being deliberately misleading?

He has needed psychiatric care for years and called 911 many times from hospital, so he clearly isn't with it. The US has a massive mental health care issue. There is a high rate of mental illness but very limited access to care.

I think you should wait for the trial before making this into a racial attack.

Go watch the videos online of this crime. Its appalling. What he says. The poor young woman did nothing, was totally defenceless, she died alone although surrounded by people who either didn't realise what happened, or were scared to help her or didn't care. After she was on the floor almost dead some people ran from a different carriage to her.

nomas · 15/09/2025 11:31

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:26

I think the small amount of coverage that story generated compared to Charlie Kirk might help illustrate he didn't get the coverage because he was white as alleged but because he was famous. Very famous especially with younger people. His coverage wasn't because he was white since this young white woman barely got a mention and she was also white.

Her tragic story is being discussed more. A white refugee from Ukraine stabbed by a madman for just being white. 'Ive seen the uncut video, he said he ended that white 'b' life and walked off. A race crime.

Her story has been covered in articles by CNN, The New York Times, The BBC, The Independent, The New York Post and others.

CK's murder is being covered more because he had millions of followers. How many murder victims have had their body personally accompanied from one state to another by the Vice President of the United States? Did George Floyd get that treatment?

JHound · 15/09/2025 11:30

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:26

I think the small amount of coverage that story generated compared to Charlie Kirk might help illustrate he didn't get the coverage because he was white as alleged but because he was famous. Very famous especially with younger people. His coverage wasn't because he was white since this young white woman barely got a mention and she was also white.

Her tragic story is being discussed more. A white refugee from Ukraine stabbed by a madman for just being white. 'Ive seen the uncut video, he said he ended that white 'b' life and walked off. A race crime.

The jury’s still out as to whether it is deemed a race crime given the mental health component and whether he will be deemed in compos mentis.

But that’s an entirely separate component to Kirk and I don’t think OP is claiming Kirk has received wall to wall coverage because he is white?

Also to be clear Iryna Zarutska‘s murder did NOT get a small amount of coverage. It has made global headlines and even Trump held a conference on it.

Everanewbie · 15/09/2025 11:29

I have listened to quite a few Charlie Kirk clips over recent years and I have not heard anything I would deem as racist. What he did do, that offended many, is pointed out some extremely hard to swallow truths that people are just not used to hearing, and believed that the inequality of outcome is not due to racism alone. Controversial? Definitely. But it was much easier to scream "Racist!" than to argue against him.

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 15/09/2025 11:29

Yes no women on MN are black 🙄

I really don’t understand this latest bizarre fad whereby people think everyone can only think on very black and white (excuse the pardon) terms.

So you can agree with Charlie Kirk on some issues but that means you’re also definitely a racist who thinks black people don’t matter.

I honestly don’t get how grown adults think like this. And so many do! It’s embaraaaing and pathetic. OP did you think you’re speaking to a hive mind and not one MNer cares about black people? I’d actually expect a toddler to have better critical thinking. Sort yourself out and address actual racists rather than thinking all of MN is racist because of a few Charlie Kirk threads

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:28

nomas · 15/09/2025 11:25

Your post implied he has been allowed to walk free after this murder. Were you being deliberately misleading?

He has needed psychiatric care for years and called 911 many times from hospital, so he clearly isn't with it. The US has a massive mental health care issue. There is a high rate of mental illness but very limited access to care.

I think you should wait for the trial before making this into a racial attack.

No, it wasn't meant that way. He was allowed to walk free despite knowledge that he was mentally ill and dangerous. He is in custody now.

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:26

JHound · 15/09/2025 11:20

Because none of the crimes he committed previously would have warranted a life imprisonment.

It’s easy to say after the fact but this is not Minority Report.

I think the small amount of coverage that story generated compared to Charlie Kirk might help illustrate he didn't get the coverage because he was white as alleged but because he was famous. Very famous especially with younger people. His coverage wasn't because he was white since this young white woman barely got a mention and she was also white.

Her tragic story is being discussed more. A white refugee from Ukraine stabbed by a madman for just being white. 'Ive seen the uncut video, he said he ended that white 'b' life and walked off. A race crime.

nomas · 15/09/2025 11:25

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:18

He was allowed to walk free before this act. A panel of judges decided he should be free despite years of crimes and violence. He the randomly killed the young woman. If he wasn't free he wouldn't have been able to.kill her.

No one appears to help her

Edited

Your post implied he has been allowed to walk free after this murder. Were you being deliberately misleading?

He has needed psychiatric care for years and called 911 many times from hospital, so he clearly isn't with it. The US has a massive mental health care issue. There is a high rate of mental illness but very limited access to care.

I think you should wait for the trial before making this into a racial attack.

JHound · 15/09/2025 11:20

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:18

He was allowed to walk free before this act. A panel of judges decided he should be free despite years of crimes and violence. He the randomly killed the young woman. If he wasn't free he wouldn't have been able to.kill her.

No one appears to help her

Edited

Because none of the crimes he committed previously would have warranted a life imprisonment.

It’s easy to say after the fact but this is not Minority Report.

TreesTreesBeesBees · 15/09/2025 11:18

nomas · 15/09/2025 11:16

He has not been allowed to walk free. He is in custody and will face trial for murder, and possibly get the death penalty. His mother has said he's a schizophrenic who she has tried to get committed into a psychiatric hospital for years, without success.

He was allowed to walk free before this act. A panel of judges decided he should be free despite years of crimes and violence. He the randomly killed the young woman. If he wasn't free he wouldn't have been able to.kill her.

No one appears to help her

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