Thread 2 Turn your son in knowing he’d get the death penalty

I’d say I’m a centrist - if I HAD to choose, I might have a toe towards the right. But I completely respect anyone’s right to stand on the left. I don’t want to wage war against anyone with a different opinion to me. I want to understand it because I might learn something. CK’s death and the events that followed have made me try to be more mindful of what I say because I don’t think the divisiveness should be perpetuated.

I agree it feels like everything is totally insane at the moment and it’s all reaching a fever pitch. I really hope this is as bad as it gets I really do.

I haven't seen any videos where he has "shouted down" young students nor have I seen ones where he "needles" or "unsettles" them before the start
But then I haven't seen them all.

But his 'change my mind' is still much better than the lefts "#Nodebate" which strangely seems to have started his campus tours.

Pascal Robinson-Foster‘s mother must be as proud as Tyler Robinson’s. Though I agree with you, I could never celebrate Pascal Robinson-Foster being shot for exercising his freedom of speech from a public platform, any more than I could support the legal execution of Charlie Kirk’s murderer.

Both far more filled with hate than the one person who, even after death and before his body was cold, is the target of the fruit of evil and bitterness. Too afraid, or too incapable of debate - let us kill it instead.

No and you're right.
My family is very left and they're all appalled and saddened by the events of last week

But a large proportion feel it is acceptable to spout pure hatred.
I just saw the concert you mean on sm. He starts it saying his pronouns are " was / were"
Sickening
And the crowd cheering.

But that's okay... because CK was a bad person right? he hurt them with his words so he definitely deserved it.
But if you say his death was a disgrace
You're far right and a sociopath.

The world has gone absolutely insane.

Exactly this ☝️

The ones who are voicing the most wicked things on here against an innocent victim whose weapon of choice was … words. Words! Onto their keyboards spill the hatred in their hearts. And now they have killed Charlie, they are gunning for his grieving widow.

From this thread alone, it appears to me that the lovey-dovey wokey ‘be kind’ inclusive liberal left, are anything but. They are afraid of freedom of thought and freedom of speech and are quite happy to see it, literally, shot down.

I do agree although I will caveat by saying not everyone on the left is this way.

Adding to the Bob Vylan comment I made - he was filmed on stage saying he was dedicating a song to a piece of shit and that “if you chat shit you WILL get banged” and saying ‘rest is piss Charlie Kirk’ and words to that effect.

I then saw a video of him saying that in no way had he celebrated CK’s death. Complete gaslighting.

I was disgusted by what he said. But if someone had shot him in the neck after he said it, I would have been equally as appalled as I was at CK being shot.

From a quick google, it looks as though a gig of his was cancelled because of it.

And you know what I find the most bizarre out of all of this

Is that the left are throwing the terms sociopath/ nazi about so flippantly
And then in the next breath saying they don't feel sorry for him or his wife and children
Like that's a completely normal and rational statement to make?!

They don't see the problems in their own vilification, just everyone who dare hold a different opinion.

Yes in these circumstances I would turn my son in.

She's right though. I don't think the killer did realise what he was going to unleash. Just look at the backlash from the left and the right.
Look at the arguing on this one thread. It has unleashed a lot of repressed anger on BOTH sides. However, and i say that as someone who is politically homeless but probably slightly more right leaning.
The left are coming off FAR WORSE.
And the murderer of CK is an " evil doer" just like all other murderers.

And no i am talking about the nurse I saw green screening him being shot and dancing and cheering.
Or the teacher who put up a post laughing and singing he had it coming.

Or our UK based politician who tweeted something about his assassination not being that bad and implying Trump should be next

The left are not liberal and accepting at all. They just used to hide it well... but the mask is slipping.

What context is that exactly? That posters who think you shouldn't kill people because you don't like their ideas, are far right?

Saying that a man should not be murdered because of his beliefs is not "The minimisation of far right ideology". No one, of any belief, should be killed because of words.

I find the posters minimising the fact that a man was killed because of what he said, shocking. Likewise I find the blithe chucking around of words like nazi and sociopath shocking. It's not only people who agree with you who deserve to live. It's not only people who share your views who deserve compassion or even just the basic humanity not to celebrate their suffering.

Someone having views you strongly disagree with doesn't justify murder, and the absolute glee with which some posters have mocked a murder victim's wife in her grief, and celebrated that children will grow up without their father, is far more sociopathic and nazi than those people are ever likely to realise.

Did anyone see what Bob Vylan said about CK on stage? It was disgusting IMO. He then posted a follow up video essentially denying everything he said when it was literally filmed.

I also don’t agree with people being sacked for saying they disagree with CK’s views.

As far as I can see they're the biggest, loudest and most concerning fascists going.

Then there’s something wrong with your vision. News commentators have been sacked for simply pointing out that CK’s views were divisive and the sorts of things he promoted created the conditions for this type of political violence. meanwhile there’s some hard core violent retaliatory rhetoric coming from the right atm, including from CK’s widow. “To the evil do-ers, You have no idea what you have just unleashed in this nation, this world”, the “battle cry” of this widow,” etc.

They're not just criticising his views though? They're celebrating his death! There's a massive difference.
I'm glad they're getting sacked

I've seen some appalling SM posts from the kind, caring and accepting left literally dancing about his death.
I've also seen people say that while they disagreed with his views that the assassination was appalling. So it would seem the left can have empathy and class but it is few and far between imo. As well demonstrated on this thread.
" maga barbie"

Honestly I am tired of the virtue signalling left making out They're the core of everything that's correct. As far as I can see they're the biggest, loudest and most concerning fascists going.

The irony regarding 'lack of empathy'😂

Most of what CK presented as “debate” was carefully curated aggressive/ provocative mocking of (often) vulnerable people. I was doom scrolling through the reels posted on his window’s insta yesterday - it was very revealing

I saw an awful clip from one of his campus talks where a slightly camp black guy stood up to ask a question. As soon as Charlie saw him he was sneering and even more so as he started talking.

The guy was saying he’d been racially abused by white guys as he walked across campus. Charlie interrupted him and asked if he’d reported it. Guy said no and Charlie outright said he didn’t believe him, that if it happened he would have reported it. Said he thought the guy was making it up.

I found it really sad. He wasn’t prepared to listen to anyone with an opposing view. Worse than that he’d accuse others of lying with no proof. In that case best scenario is he was just a horrible person, worst case it’s it’s prejudice and racism which is making him so keen to dismiss the other person. I don’t think a white person should be dismissing a black persons experience like that.

of course none of that is a reason to shoot someone but I think it shines a light on the sort of person he was.

Do we really want to say that hateful speech leads to violence? Did hateful right wing rhetoric cause Melissa Hortman, Paul Pelosi, John Hoffman, Gretchen Whitmer, Esther Salas...?

Think of the arguments TRAs use : 'Words are violence'. Do you want to go down that road?

'Exile' who from public life? All Democrats? Democratically, I assume?

And when you say people who criticised Kirk are criticising half the country, does this mean half of the US shares his most controversial views? (It was generally these which caused the dislike of many, not simply being a conservative Christian).

So half of the US believes that raped 10yos should not be allowed an abortion,
that gay relationships are like a drug or alcohol addiction,
and gay people are 'groomers' who, as he quoted Anita Bryant : 'cannot reproduce so must recruit',
that Michelle Obama didn't achieve her career via brain power but bc she's black, that wives should submit to their husbands...?

Is that so?

We have to Unite against people who are promoting extreme ideas. I think some do not realise maybe the depth of what the people they want in power aim for, but many do. Most people in UK & US don't want an extreme government though, but are also not aware of how radical the people they vote for might potentially be.

Info sources which may find useful if curious :

This forthcoming book is v good on the Christian Nationalist plan for US (Theocracy, essentially), and its links w prominent politicians & other figures

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seven-Mountains-Mandate-Dangerous-Christianize/dp/0664269214

Other books on this I'd recommend would be :The Power Worshippers
Money, Lies and God
Wild Faith
Jesus and John Wayne
Building God's Kingdom : Inside The World of Christian Reconstructionism
American Theocracy
Disobedient Women by Sarah Stankorb

We should also be aware of the 'Orthobros' movement promoted by Putin in the US,

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002bsx9&ved=2ahUKEwiBu6-MiNqPAxUHWUEAHTxGHXoQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw27VMxhl_ShO82UM_CljoIf

And the influence of ultraconservative Catholic sects like Opus Dei, of which Vance, for one, is a member :

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=open.spotify.com/episode/6RJFjXUdZR6v1LpUq7pwfX&ved=2ahUKEwjZ9ovYiNqPAxVgUUEAHYkVAJ8QFnoECCoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw192EN6Y4m8vqJNLftUzHsd

This Substack is also good on how Christian nationalists are worryingly getting some Democrats onside too via prayer meetings :

https://jonathanlarsen.substack.com/p/gluesenkamp-perez-misled-town-hall?utm_campaign=posts-open-in-app&triedRedirect=true

100%.

The minimisation of far right (misogynistic, racist and violent) ideology going on these and other threads is quite shocking.

Having seen some of the usernames engaged in this , however, it’s putting a lot of my previous frustrations and interactions on this site into sharp relief. I think I understand the context much better now.

Yep he also said that “black America is worse than it has been in the last 80 years”. He said black people were “better in the 1940s” because they “committed less crimes” (sic).

@AccidentallyWesAnderson Charlie Kirk did say black people were better off in slavery and subjugation before the 1940's.
(That’s a Twitter link.) This was during one of his Q & As with students. He said there was “less crime” as a result of slavery.

Actually the statements that she and the children were there were retracted, and based on her speech it appears she wasn’t. .

People are allowed to criticise EK. Her speech was extremely disturbing and inflammatory. She idolised Vance and Trump and vowed to continue her husband’s far right mission using divisive and violent metaphor.