To think that America wasn't that great in the first place?

You don't mention any other nationalities.

I totally agree with this.

This is pretty much what JD Vance was alluding to in Hillbilly Elegy. I actually really liked his perspective when I first read it, because he captured that sense of nostalgia for the working-class stability of mid-20th century America. I had high hopes for him… until Trump made him vice president and he seemed to change completely overnight. I still can’t believe he wrote Hillbilly Elegy. He seems like a completely different person now.

Maybe I’m just too easily fooled?

Did I say all?

NB: I'm descended from lots of genocidal American settlers.

@malificent7 ; is any country in your mind, "great" or ever was "great" ? Can you name one such place?

One thing about Americans is we tend to be optimists, survivors, constructively overcoming Adversity. Focus on opportunities and positive aspects. I always say (broken record) that Trumpism is deeply anti-American because it encourages resentment, especially against people who have been successful, and it thrives on describing problems not opportunities.

Johnson was right to rail against Gloomsters and Doomsters. 'Tis difficult to realise I agree with him about anything, but there it is.

For those coming from really poor countries years and years ago I think it was life having but it’s been a long time since people
from low incomes or poor backgrounds have been able to achieve the mythical American dream’

Yes, most 'first world' democracies aren't doing well atm. Look at the recent histories of not just the UK, but also France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Greece - all struggling with some combination of high levels of unemployment, lack of employment opportunities in many areas, economic stagnation, large welfare bills that burden the state, crumbling infrastructure due to lack of investment, dangerous no-go zones in large urban areas, high levels of immigration and low levels of integration leading to civil unrest, and large levels of disaffection in the general population.

The US has all that too, but salaries and the standard of living there are generally much higher than in the UK for professional working people. I'm a US citizen and the difference between those things is shocking and stark. Most people in this country don't fully appreciate how badly paid they are and the kind of salaries that people in the US are being paid for the same jobs. My DH and I often debate whether we should move back there, because of this.

I agree with your post, @ladybirdsanchez

Much of the same can be said for Britain, although the glory days are in the more distant past.

I don't think the G in MAGA is harking back to the founding of America or the settlement of the continent, more like the 20th century, when America was the world's superpower, it was wealthy and influential, it's made a lot of goods, its population was relatively wealthy and its entry into both the First and Second World Wars meant that it and its allies won those wars.

A lot of older Americans remember when America and Americans were the envy of the world, when there were jobs for all, when a lot of working class people lived in nice homes in nice suburbs, because the man could get a well-paid blue-collar job that supported his whole family. That era, the 1940s and 1950s, is when Trump was growing up - he remembers those times and I think that's what he wants to try and recreate. America in that era was certainly the envy of much of Europe, which was struggling to get back on its feet after the Second World War, its cities ravaged by bombs, its economies shattered.

But look at America now - it's not the envy of the world any more. It's riven by culture wars and urban decay, its manufacturing and industrial heartland is now called The Rustbelt, it has a disaffected and angry underclass made up of the kind of people who once worked in those factories and mines and mills. The downtown areas of many of America's great cities are full of homeless people who are either drug addicted and/or suffering with mental health problems. It's really not the utopia it once was.

I've had so many American friends who chose to live abroad because they couldn't cope with the rhetoric that America is great. It's objectively a deeply fucked-up country and has been since its first iteration.

What really boils my piss is how they drag everyone down and call it power. We did similar, we're still complicit and we still can't face the legacy of the empire. You can barely get the average Brit to acknowledge the racism inherent in empire even today. We had a good run of it a few years ago but look how little difference it's made.

She's asking for comment from folk who do have knowledge - that's not exclusively those experiencing it from inside.

@GleisZwei the OP has literally admitted that she has zero knowledge of the subject

in terms of who is qualified to comment, I miss the days when people didn't just start threads with random nonsense

I remember a lot of your posts @malificent7 because they are often like this.

In that case are you not qualified to speak about anything other than what's happening in America?
You're not aware how enlightening external perspectives can be?

Well said as a usa citizen l have been to usa many times and find the country ok , the present set up is political we won't go into that as each country in the world changes , l hope the usa settles to middle of the road stuff . My only concern is the worship of money ad a God seems very strange as l am Christian , to quote worship only one God as l am a jealous God, l am sorry that a familly have lost there husband and father, it's dreadfull William, although l will never return to usa due to age

The US has great power

I think it’s a country that for some has the best of westerners life (what we collectively value in western countries) and the worst it’s a country of extremes in a way that Europe isn’t

for my family who immigrated there it’s been great that have absolutely lived the American dream

Nation founded by a bunch of tax dodgers. What could possibly go wrong ?

You think all settlers in the US were British?

Some modern Americans are pretty awful.

The rest of the world is hugely, often adversely, affected by U.S. politics, power and culture, so it's not really fair to suggest that people who haven't lived there can't comment.

PiggyPigalle · Today 10:08

What British land has been given away?

Well you must have visited a lot to be able to come to this conclusion about a country so what did you think when you were there to judge?

That's all a long time ago and no worse than colonizers did to this country or anywhere else.
America's super power status is far more recent and was built on wars in Europe.
A search of something like "What made America so powerful" is a real eye opener. It certainly kills the folklore of the USA altruistically coming to the aid of others.
"America First" is the current slogan. America has always put itself first.
Perhaps if we took a leaf from their book, instead of giving away British land, we could be in a better position.

That was the way of the World for most of human history. Why single out the US?

Everywhere has its ups and downs.

But I suppose if you have a movement called 'make anerica great again' you do need to be able to explain what was great (that isn't now) and how you will do that.

They seem to suggest that America is not great anymore because of EDI. I think its probably not that.

If Make Britain Great Again gets lots of traction, I would be baffled unless it was about moving from a service economy to a bit more investment in our remaining manufacturing industry.

Yeah but it was great for the people who benefitted from it! They want to go back to a time when they had all the resources, power and opportunity, and the world was theirs for the taking.

They saddle you with debt, from birth, so you have to work in poor working conditions, where your debt just gets bigger and bigger - whilst those at the top get richer and richer.
People die, on a daily basis, of easily treated diseases, because they don’t want to look after thier citizens properly.
The political system is a joke, 2 parties and a billion pound popularity contest, decides who wins.
The “justice system” has zero independence, with judges being Political appointments.
There are no checks & balances in government, which is why Trump & allies can do what they want, regardless.

Land of the Free my backside

It is, and always has been, the Wild West. Quite scary that some want us to move more towards thier backward way of governing.