To believe the right and left have more in common than we think

I don’t get the “sadness” for people treating him
as he treated others?

He mocked the deaths of Palestinians, spent years mocking the murder of George Floyd and mocked the brutal beating of Nancy Pelosi’s husband.

You reap what you sow. (I wonder if Andrew Tate dies if people will be making this same argument.)

I don't think many people have said he 'deserved' to die, merely that they're not sad about it, and that the uptick in political violence is something he's contributed to. It isn't ghoulish or disrespectful to say that.

Think of all the political violence that the Maga movement has caused: more violent arrests and deportations, more hate crimes, more women dying because they can't get abortions.

Exactly - horseshoe theory was debunked years ago for being too simplistic.

With respect, you're talking nonsense.

Charlie Kirk was happy for other people's kids to get shot and other people's daughters to get raped.

I guarantee you that until the second his blood was cascading down his white t shirt Charlie Kirk didn't think it would happen to him. He was happy to take the far right shilling and spout devisive propaganda. He profited from making society more hateful and he paid the ultimate price for it.

And I haven't seen anyone celebrating his death. Democratic politicians in the US have been respectful and compassionate.

The right without any evidence are already branding the left as terrorists and trying to martyr Charlie. Whereas they have studiously avoided commenting on the much more frequent right wing violence. As soon as Melissa Hortman was shot MAGA mouthpieces were pumping out news that the crime was perpetrated by the left wing radicals we hear so much about. It wasn't of course. MAGA are liars, the truth holds no weight to them.

Trump's government are an atrocious collection of amoral, power hungry, money grabbing monsters intent on political capture leading to dictatorship for their own ends.

As a dyed in the wool floating voter with absolutely centrist views, i can tell you as I watch on in horror that MAGA and the right are not the same as the Democratic party or those with more socialist ideals. They're worlds apart.

My personal view is that whilst his view were in complete opposition to mine, killing someone because they disagree with you is wrong.

Thinking that his views justify the action is a worrying place to be.

I think a huge number of young people had heard of him and discussed him a lot (I work with 15-18 year olds). They didnt all agree with him. But he wasnt some unheard of figure. They enjoyed the debate and challenge.

They are shocked by this. Tiktok is constant for these young people. They will all have seen the actual video of him dying. Which is slightly different impact than a news report on the BBC saying 'people died in a bomb attack'

It’s always interesting isn’t it? I asked my Student years ago. If you had the opportunity to assassinate Hitler would it be appropriate to do so?
And every single one of them said yes
Obviously we then put a bit more meat on the bones but fundamentally it was agreed that eradicate in that one person may have saved millions of lives
I wonder if we did the same on Wednesday

Is this the polite discourse you are championing? Ad hominem? I have watched his videos and read his views.
But OP uses the word " understand" in a different sense.

So just lazy then?

My thoughts exactly. The whole thing is bizarre. It's sad that a young guy has been killed, but horrific deaths happen every day. Many of them in our own country.

That's polite.Not sure why you assume I haven't " heard" him.

Yes, as a centrist this is my view too. Lots of extremists on both sides accept harm being done to those they disagree with because they don't really see them as people, regardless of any fine words to the contrary.

Extremists of all types have a lot in common.

Remember, Hitler’s extreme right party called itself National SOCIALIST in at attempt to get the workers on side.

One of the reason the Far Left and religious extremists seem to like each other too is that although they disagree on a
lot (eg women’s rights, LGBT rights etc) is that they think that they can help
each others cause.

The Far Left court the religious vote because there are sufficient numbers to get them elected in some places, and the religious extremists vote for them because they know the Far Left will create a climate in which criticism of some of the extreme practices of some minority religions will not be tolerated because it is seen as disrespectful of or stoking hate against minorities.

This post makes more sense than any others I've seen in recent weeks.

It's a massive oversimplification and incredibly reductionist to pitch The Left v The Right. The vast majority of the electorate are centrists, for a start - that's why political parties are so desperate to attract floating voters.

My own values align more with Green, LibDems and Labour than with Conservative. I would rather vote Conservative than see Reform win my local seat, though, if it was a race between the two.

This left v right mentality is the dumbing down of different combinations of beliefs and values, and it does nobody any favours.

I'd never heard of this man before yesterday. I'm incredibly sorry that his family witnessed his death, and violence is never the answer. Simultaneously, I find it abhorrent that a man's pro-life stance could effectively ruin his daughter's life if she was ever unfortunate enough to have been raped and pregnant. I think there are very extreme views on all kinds of matters that affect humanity. But most fall somewhere broadly in the middle of a kaleidoscopic spectrum and choose a political party of 'best fit' with their personal beliefs, at any point in their life.

At least he actually debated his views and listened to opposite views! He didn't just try and shut them down by labelling them as "Evil"

YOU are the one spouting Dogma! Take your head out of your arse so you can hear people's views - even if they are abhorrent to yours.

I was surprised at how many people did know who he was, particularly young teens/tweens. I’ve got a fascination in American politics so I’ve always geeked out on YouTube. I assumed no one in my UK circle would know who he was but it was the main topic of conversation when I got into work. Several colleagues were saying their teenagers were all incredibly shocked. He had far more influence in the UK than you realise.

I am GC as it happens.
But I am not naive enough to believe that men who know what women are- Trump, Vance, CK- treat them any better.

I think most people are quite central in their beliefs but have certain viewpoints which are left or right.
When people talk to each other generally, they find they have more in common than differences but certain issues suddenly become tribal.
Everyone has a label pushed onto them for their views. Terf, antivaxxer, covidiot, maga, woke, patriot as examples.
When you’re aligned with one, then you’re the enemy of everyone who is not even if we agree on many other things and have the same struggles of paying bills, going to work, raising children.

I agree with you OP and I like the idea of ‘doing the maths differently’. The very first person to reply with ‘no, he’s evil’, on your thread proves your point. It’s just easier (and lazier) to shut down the other side with ‘nah, I’m not listening’ or suggest they’re evil or stupid.

If you watch CK in context, often his arguments made perfect sense from a logical point of view. You might not like them morally, but philosophically it was logical.

He was interested in unpicking how people had arrived at their views. I watched one the other night which went along these lines.
CK: What is a woman?
Student: Anyone who wants to be a woman is one
CK: No, that’s a personal statement, that doesn’t tell me what a woman is? If I asked you ‘what is a fish and you said ‘anyone can be a fish, that still doesn’t tell me what a fish actually is’. And on they sparred until it became clear the student had started from a faulty baseline.

So much of what people believe can be based on an illogical assumption or acceptance of an ideology and when you debate those things, that’s when we begin to see common ground.

It’s something I’m really excited about - division is often broken down when we actually listen to each other instead of starting from the assumption the other person is an idiot.

CK helped students to look at why they believed what they believed. I try to do this whenever I can before uncritically accepting something is true. I researched Andrew Tate just to see if there was anything remotely worthy in what he was saying. Everyone was telling me he was a nasty racist but I wanted to know for myself.

After looking at loads of his stuff, I do now agree and don’t think there’s anything worthy in his content but I do now at least understand his ‘working out’ and can see why young men are drawn to him. I might just be able to help my young nephews from falling into that trap because I understand the maths of Andrew Tate.

Is supporting a woman's rights over her own body dogma?

I've watched some of the Campus videos.

I don't agree with most of his views - only agree on Trans issues - but he DID encourage debate and listened to opposite POV.

He didn't just spout dogma like the poster above

"KateMiskin · Today 07:22

Lot of word salad to cover up plain evil."

🙄

Horseshoe Theory - I think there is something in this, though what research there is doesn’t seem to strongly support it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory#:~:text=Proponents%20of%20horseshoe%20theory%20argue,have%20criticized%20the%20horseshoe%20theory.

I did not once say he should be killed.
We don't disagree on that.

No he doesn't 'get a pass'. His views were abhorrent to me. But I respect his right to hold them. And no one has the right to kill someone who's views they disagree with, no matter how awful the views are.

I think the right and left have more in common than not also and I think the extreme right/left stances are both authoritarian and intolerant and a scary prospect.

Its why I like democratic systems that lead us towards the centre and consensus.

I am basing this in the england. On something like abortion english people are overwhelming pro abortion in at least some circumstances so it must cover left and right leaning people to be so well supported. But they might be thinking it in in a different way. I think this is key to getting consensus in some issues.