Safeguarding called me today regarding DD4

Leading questions- safeguarding no-no

I think you are (understandably) spiralling because you feel accused. But the evidence points to you having done nothing - there was no mark on her arm and your daughter didn’t have anything more to say. I don’t think there is any parent out there that hasn’t accidentally hurt their child (yanked them away from the road, got their hair caught in a car seat etc etc). I’m not sure there was much of a better way for school to handle this as if they asked a vague question they wouldn’t have got an helpful answer. Plus, they are around small children all day long and know they say random things. They have been open and informed you, it sounds as though the case is closed and has not been passed to social services. The school will have seen kids are actually being abused, it’s their duty to follow everything up but they will use their judgement and experience in deciding if to escalated

I work in social care and this happens a lot more than you would think. Most of the time it will be a quick call from a social worker, or they may want to speak with your child. The school have a duty of care to report any concerns no matter how ridiculous. Its scary and upsetting but the majority of the time it's a quick chat and case closed.

Do you know that the teacher "pulled your child aside and asked 'did mummy hurt you?'" or is that your four-year-old's description of what happened?

They were already changing schools.
Sorry that's already been said

I remember as a child about 3 or 4 years old (in my house thankfully) singing a rhyme I'd made up about my mother being a member of a certain terrorist organisation that was (presumably) in the news a lot at the time.
Newsflash - she wasn't! I just liked the alliteration "mummy is a member of..."
My parents were horrified.
Imagine if I'd said that in school!

Oh yes, no question they had to follow up, just badly handled.

I think you're missing the original point - the daughter did NOT hurt her arm.

They are right. You do want them to follow up, you do want them to ask questipns, you do want them to check on your daughter. We all want and need this. Because far too many children have suffered terribly at the hands of their carers. You have nothing to worry about, so don't. It is that easy
Though, does your DD arm still hurt? Did she fall recently? Could it be broken? Even just a hairline fracture? Or a splinter, bite, recent vaccine, anything that could hurt without affecting her arm movements?

Agreed. It was handled completely wrongly by the teacher, but because it was reported, it has to be faced, regardless.

I had thought they are trained never to ask closed questions. My daughter keeps falling off playground equipment and breaking her am, and in A&E the approach is consistent - they say something along the lines of "oh no, how did that happen" and wait for her to tell them. I get the impression there's quite a big process behind it, where they're looking for any signs that she's been told what to say. So asking "did your mother hurt" you seems very weird particularly for children that age.

@CC943 The only reason they are falling over their arses to follow up every thing remotely connected to abuse is because of their massive failings in the past that led to child deaths.

Invite them around. Show them your house, talk them through your routine. They will leave you alone when they see that all is well there. There is nothing to be afraid of.

It's not third hand. The teacher was literally telling OP what she had said.

And OP isn't moving her child for this reason. The place at her original first choice school had been offered and accepted before this incident.

You are right to be annoyed and they should know better. Asking leading questions to children is a sure way for them to tell you what they think you want to hear.

That is the reason why police, doctors, well qualified counselling professionals and I would have thought teachers, do get training on how to question children when there are safeguarding concerns.

And also, you don’t go straight to a potential aggressor saying the child said this or that as that put the child in further danger.

Having said that… if you know your DD was not hurt, just ignore, unless you didn’t tell the school you were moving schools before the incident.

Well that's third hand information isnt it? Tbe op was upset and i can imagine she might just have heard 'is mummy hurting you?', rather than the context. She is overreacting by hastily (foolishly in my opinion) changing schools over this, and justifying this to herself and us, by painting them in tbe worst possible colours.
Every teacher is well trained in safeguarding, and i do not believe they interviewed her dd in the way op imagines. The new school will instigate safeguarding procedures if your dd raises a similar cause for concern, because they legally have to. Changing school does nothing but raise further suspicion.

Questioning children that young "safely" (i.e. without inadvertently affecting their answers) is notoriously difficult. Police, lawyers and judges generally have specialist training in order to do it, so yes, I agree with you that the approach of asking leading questions was not ideal. But then how else are they to do it? They presumably haven't been trained in what is a very difficult skill in any event.

I also take issue with saying you have never hurt your child. Presumably you have accidentally hurt your child at some point in her 4 years?* This is probably something that safeguarding should have tried to ascertain but also it seems silly to go in with your approach. Could your child have been talking about a time you have accidentally hurt her, for example pulling her hand away from something hot?

*(this has reminded me of a particularly horrendous incident when my youngest was two and I had to take her to A&E covered in blood caused by an accident that was entirely my fault. But accidents do happen and there was no issue. Other than my extreme guilt. Said child is fine - it was horrible but looked a lot worse than it turned out to be)

I really doubt the teacher came out with a bald question 'is mummy hurting you'.

At 21:31 OP posted:
"the teacher told me when I collected her that she asked her ‘does mummy hurt you?’"

I think the fact that they phoned shows it was a routine enquiry rather than a suspicion. Not sure about the leading question, but it was a direct follow on from what the teacher heard DD say, not out of the blue.

Absolutely everything regarding the child's wellbeing is logged on special software (usually CPOMS) . For example, Charlie was frusrated because he couldnt do his maths, Fiona's mum called in to say she didnt sleep well, Amy said Sophie called her a 'mean name' , Toby's parents are separating, as well as incidents of suspected poor parenting or even abuse
This details exactly what happened and who said what. They are reviewed by the safeguarding lead who posts her response of what to do next. Your daughter's CPOMs file will be sent to her next school. Changing schools after a child has made a disclosure like this may well be seen as a red flag

I really doubt the teacher came out with a bald question, 'is mummy hurting you'. More likely they asked her about her alleged disclosure, which she may have felt confused about, meaning they had to repeat it to her ie 'did you say to child x 'mummy is hurting me'? 2 very different things. They could not have asked if her arm was , as many others have suggested, because she only indicated the arm in response to questioning.

a kid reported to an adult about your kid. It would be absurd if they didn’t follow up! What more do you want from the school?! the adults spoke about it, kept you in the loop and that’s probably the end of it. Why make a big fuss? You’ll just look guilty.

You are just spiralling now and saying the same things over and over again. If you talk to the setting about what has happened, how you think they have put words in her mouth and how they needed an answer so they have pulled one out of her…all of that will also go on to the safeguarding system. So just be aware of that.

The adult definitely should have asked an open ended question.