Differences (rep Ireland) Irish V UK

@CraftyNavySeal I think some Anglo Irish families might retain some of the class preoccupations of the UK though? Though it probably depends and I might be completely wrong.

I do know some of my neighbours have a specific accent recognisable as linked to Anglo heritage. With others there has been a lot more intermarrying and they have the local accent.

ETA I know I never think of myself as working class / lower middle class / upper middle class. It would simply never occur to me to catergorise myself or others in that way. At the same time I often know or can guess who’s wealthier or educated or whatever, but it’s not really named iyswim. Not in my circles anyway.

Not the person you replied to but as an Anglo Irish, in my Irish family there are very clear ideas about what you should and should not do and if you veer from that they will gossip about you. You are competing with the other kids in the family and your neighbours kids.

This relates to divorce, people don’t divorce because the stigma is still there!

I have a cousin who dropped out of uni and works as a nanny, you would have thought she went to prison or something.

Whereas in my experience of lower middle class London/West midlands families (as in, everyone in all these examples are teachers and nurses), no one cares as much.

What surprised me was their very middle class snobbery

@Failedcrunchymum
I also find it interesting that you were surprised Irish people could be snobby. I think that says something about how people in England (?) view Irish people perhaps.

You wouldn’t hear people saying they were ‘working class’ or ‘middle class’ as they do on MN all the time though. There’s a difference in that sense. Less identification with class maybe?

What were the surprising cultural differences that caused culture shock for you?

Deffo agree, I think we’ve a healthier attitude to death here (Ireland), with the various traditions not so common in England. But the best in my view is the speed of it all. The (often) fortnight’s gap between death and funeral in England is pretty tough on the bereaved, I think. Maybe it’s all about admin and whatnot in a far more populous country that necessitates it, but I think Ireland does it better, with the fast ‘turnaround’.

Totally agree with everything you said OP.

Irish living in England for 21 years.

I think that is very much a matter of personal choice though. I was "socially expected" to have a "proper" funeral for my DH and I flatly refused because I didn't want it. He had no living family, my parents were dead and my sibs were there but no one else.

I'm Irish now living in England. Looking at your generalisations:

We get married later - Agree
We stay married - not sure about this, but if it's true is this always because they are happy to stay married or because of the influence of the Catholic church?
We don't consider abortion unless it's very particular circumstances - Disagree. This might be generational.
We are indirect about money "I'll get this one, you can get the next one (but it is LAW you only accept if you are buying back)" - Not sure this is any different to UK.
Sending bank details for a small amount would be horrifyingly rude - Not aware this is common practice in the UK, I would think it's rude anywhere.
You only attend a wedding with a card containing at least 100 euro pp - Agree, I find there's an expectation that much of the wedding cost will be recouped through gifted money.
You usually get married in your mid thirties - Agree.
Your kids are mainly all with the one father - Not sure that's all that different. Anecdotally I know more Irish people with children by different fathers than English people in the same circumstance. Again, might be generational.
We hide behind humour until we know a person very well - Very similar to English people I know.
We don't report benefit fraud - Not sure that's a good thing?
We laugh a lot more - I think the different cultures have different senses of humour rather than laughing more or less.

I agree with this. It’s having ‘cop on’ about money.

Inflation for you . 50 is no biggie now. Same with beggars in Dublin. Used to be ' spare change' but now it's ' You wouldn't have 2 Euros to spare bud? ' 😆

I met DH at uni but got married at 28, very normal for me. I needed to be sure 😆

I lived in Ireland (only for a few months, admittedly) and got to know an Irish family well. What surprised me was their very middle class snobbery, to the point where they wouldn't allow their children to mix with certain cousins as they were considered a bad influence. They had their own problems but kept them hidden to keep up appearances, and wouldn't admit to them even amongst family members. They were always polite to me but judging by the questions they asked about my own family background and their reactions, they didn't approve of the differences between us. Other Irish families who were 'working class' were completely different; more open and honest and less concerned with how others might perceive them. I agree there are a lot of surprising cultural differences between the UK and ROI, and I experienced a huge culture shock, but class was just as apparent there as in the UK, in my experience.

we get married later, we stay married

That's not just a difference between Ireland and UK. It's a difference between Ireland and everywhere else, as the average age for marriage in Ireland is the latest in the world.

It used to be the case in the UK that people stayed married. Having known people in their 80s who stayed married despite abuse I don't see that as a positive thing

They also say that their favourite thing about England is having a private life over here.

That's true, my mum hated that everyone knew her business.

So I'm not Irish but I've a good friend there I went to uni with. His family are lovely and I go over often. It seems that almost every adult does some sort of voluntary work, either with sports, kids socials etc, it seems so community minded. My friend is gay and so is his sister, this isn't discussed openly, their partners are referred to as flatmates.

I like the discreet wedding behaviour when you give €200 for a present and you get no thanks several weddings

I agree with this 💯. I’m from a similar background and tho I love them dearly, my Irish side are much more snobby than my English relatives and sadly, many of them are quietly racist too. However, those who have lived in London, really admire the diversity and tolerance of London life. They also say that their favourite thing about England is having a private life over here.

I assume that the divorce and abortion is down to some deep rooted catholic guilt that we are all barely aware of. It will be interesting to see if these figures move as kids today are brought up very light on religion, if it is there at all.

I’m not certain it has to do with religion now. I just think it takes generations for these things to change. If you grow up with your parents together, and nobody you know splits up, then that is your norm.

Divorce is absolutely necessary and essential when needed…but I sometimes think people mightn’t work on their marriages enough when there’s a minor blip if divorce is the norm. At least judging from all the cries of LTB on MN threads.

I’ve lived and worked in the UK and I live and work in 2 different counties in Ireland where a lot of my work colleagues come from counties further away. I find a big urban rural divide in Ireland. I found a lot of cultural differences with the UK when I lived there mostly around what they put on their chips and what they call a chip shop and the length of a mass of I had to find a church to bring my parents on a visit. An Irish priest in Ireland would be run out of town for those hour plus masses whereas in the UK a long mass seems to be not just appreciated but expected by the locals.

There are tonnes of seperated and divorced folks where I work in Ireland, that must be a particular peculiarity of our different experiences and loads of marriages that don’t show up as divorce end in Ireland where they stay married for appearance even with decades long other relationships.

Well people getting married later, less second marriages and less divorces is just a fact. The abortion rate is significantly lower as well.

I assume that the divorce and abortion is down to some deep rooted catholic guilt that we are all barely aware of. It will be interesting to see if these figures move as kids today are brought up very light on religion, if it is there at all.

There has been just enormous changes over the last 35 years or so. Ireland is completely unrecognisable from the Ireland of my childhood, in a good way.

Left Ireland for N Ireland in 1991, then London since 2002. Big things that still make me gasp...
Body in a morgue for weeks before a funeral. DC have been told to get me back home to Ireland while still warm and don't leave me languishing in an English fridge.
Hierarchy for everything - currently listening to friends here talk about DC and uni next year and it isn't just about Oxbridge and RG, but which college in the university and which halls, etc. Madness.
Wealthy people insisting on keeping their heating off until icicles fall from their nose like some sort of purity test.
Yes class - there's a great viral video of an Irish comedian saying that in Ireland there is people, then people with notions.
Being in someone's house for hours and not being offered something to eat.
I'll have more, but I feel better for getting those off my chest.

@bigwhitedog yes exactly, many think it was just the IRA & don't know about the loyalists & the collusion. They also have little understanding that what happened terror wise in say London was a very different experience to say Belfast.

Agree with this!

I think lots of things are probably (generally) true. I was surprised at the stats for first time Irish marriage, it's one of the oldest ages in the world. Although divorce is apparently 0.7 vs 1.7% in the UK, so not a huge difference.

but "we laugh a lot more" is a bit weird. How on earth would you measure that? It seems like a lot of your comparisons come from your interactions with your UK office - if people are at work they're more likely to be working/behaving professionally, particularly during a meeting, than cracking jokes!

And similarly 'MN' is not exactly representative of the whole UK. Lots of people on here are completely batshit! Plus the whole nature of an online forum is it's self-selecting, so people will choose to reply to threads they have an interest in so you are less likely to hear moderate voices because they don't care enough to comment.

btw I do think it's slightly ironic that Irish people get annoyed about not being called British and Irish history and culture not being taught in the UK, but then use English/England and UK interchangeably, as you've done here, ignoring the (often quite significant differences) between England, Wales& Scotland.

Obviously this is just one example but when I last visited Dublin I went to a major tourist attraction and was asked by the Irish person working there where I was from, when I said 'Cardiff,' she asked if that was in England, so the lack of interest/education can go both ways.

Which to some extent is understandable, we are two completely different countries. I still think we have a lot more in common than pretty much any other country in the world.