Differences (rep Ireland) Irish V UK

Fabulous trouser suits, same sex dates, going solo are all totally normal at Debs.

There were some strong women on the Housewives documentary in fairness.
My colleague...mother of the debs...had a do in her house which included a deb in a tuxedo who is working through her choices. The debs granny was taken aback.

Oh god, I made friends completely unproblematically in English cities, but my utterly miserably friendless period was in an East Midlands village.

None of that is wrong (though I do see a lot of young women on campus who don’t do conventional femininity at all, so there’s that) — ranting is needed.

If you want to scream yourself blue in the face and haven’t already seen it, see if the Housewife of the Year documentary is still on the RTE player.

I can’t believe the Rose is still going either. I get that there’s now a woman presenter to improve the visuals of a middle-aged man patronising a series of young women carefully curated for their ‘lovely’ qualities. My poor mother remains disappointed she raised a trio of bolshie atheist feminist careerists.

100 euros at least for a wedding gift? Christ, no wonder people stay married in Ireland. No bugger could afford to come to their second wedding.

Oh for sure, the bloody Rose has been infuriating me for over fifty years and it seems to be unkillable!
Im glad to read about your neighbours there, and their happy lives.
I just hope there are some among their pals who attend their debs in a fabulous trouser suit and indeed a buzz cut….but I bet such a look is rare.

Camogie or not, I think few modern girls get away with much divergence from that Disney princess look when they are required to look their best.
(Probably starts with their First Holy Communion, when dressing up as a frothy meringue is de rigueur)
I do not believe that all of them can love that vibe, but the expectation is now that this is the accepted feminine look, and there shall be no other!
Not a hint of any look but this gender straitjacket, and for some, the mismatch with self image can cause considerable anguish and confusion.

There’s still a strong seam here of ‘Lovely Girls’ as a cultural ideal, where being a determinedly ‘anti-loveliness’ type of kid, refusing to conform and serve, just means misery and bullying.
The Rose of Tralee epitomises this nonsense still, as you say, no matter how much it seeks to fool viewers into thinking it’s not primarily about female pulchritude but about fascinating careers and interests.

(Huh. Don’t mind me. Feeling ill and out of sorts, and it makes me rant-prone)

WRT history - I had the most awkward conversation a few years back. I was having dinner at a work event - English boss was there and also people boss was trying to impress, so it was quite stiff and formal. For some reason the Irish famine came up in conversation. One of the attendees was South African and he started speaking very knowledgeably about it. Boss and another bigwig looked totally blank and bemused. I tried to end the conversation but bigwig started asking questions and they eventually had to admit that they had no idea what he was on about. I had to fill in some details, which was not comfortable at all and the overall feeling was that boss and bigwig had shown themselves up by not knowing about something so major. Ugh. Awkward.

I would add that Irish people are chatty, in that they'll strike up a conversation anywhere, but I find English people friendlier. I would say it is harder for an English person to embed themselves in an Irish town (unless they marry into a big family) than it is for an Irish person to embed themselve into an English town. Irish people tend to stay quite connected to their families and while it is easy to have a conversation with someone I'd say it is hard to break into established networks and make friends. My English friend who lives in rural Ireland has only managed to make friends with other 'blow-ins' - the locals all have their families and old friends and just aren't interested. By contrast I had no trouble making friends when I moved to the east midlands, partly because most people I met had moved around a bit and weren't necessarily near their family or long-term friends.

Oh sure, but most people don’t read great literature. Those who do naturally find their way to Joyce and Yeats and Wilde and Heaney. And through that they come to know Irish history. (My own knowledge of Irish history has been filtered entirely through literature - especially the works of Joyce and Heaney. I also love Wilde, though he’s something of an outlier as he was a bit of a mash up of British and Irish culture.)

Yes, all my mother’s childhood neighbours did this when my paternal grandfather died — they had met him once at my parents’ wedding, 19 years before, but they drove 40 miles to make the removal.

Oh, I loved London and lived there for ten years. I struggled far more with my period in village Middle England.

It’s the kind of thing ‘Reggie from the Blackrock Road’ builds his routines around. or his ‘Ask Audrey columns.) Google if you haven’t come across him. At his best, he’s hilarious on small city snobbery and the way every county/small town has a neighbouring county or small town they despise.

Though he’s now touring outside of Cork (I think I saw dates in Kilkenny and Dún Laoghaire), so I assume it works beyond Cork.

https://www.reggieblackrockroad.com

Yes, I agree. Not long after I moved to England someone mentioned being invited to a funeral - that spun my head entirely. There might be the odd occasion in Ireland where the family wants a really small funeral and they'd say that, but otherwise the understanding is everyone and his dog can come along if they like. My gran's entire social life revolved around funerals. I went to my former babysitter's dad's funeral when I was in my 20s and the funeral of my best friend's elderly next door neighbour (they were close and I knew her too). The mother of a classmate died when I was at secondary and the school arranged transport for the entire year to go to the funeral. It's common for hundreds of people to turn up.

@AgDulAmach Yes there are loads of great things about England but they don’t know how to throw a decent funeral. I found it so upsetting going to the funeral of a relatively young woman, and it was utterly depressing and very lonely for the family or something. Like there isn’t that same sense that people are coming together to hold you up in your time of grief.

My dd spent a bit of time in London a couple of years ago and was prepared to be lonely...she couldn't believe how chatty people were working in transport and cafes and places. I have found London Underground staff to be very pleasant when I look confused.
I worked in the south of England for 7 years...I never knew people were going no contact and not letting electrician use toilets etc!

…students tend to fall in to one of two categories. Outside Dublin there are Protestant schools that were to traditionally cater for those who didn’t want to go to the local non fee paying Catholic schools

At least half of the fee-paying schools in Munster are Catholic @ChimneyPot.

I was born and raised in Ireland, have lived in England for over 15 years.

The 100 euro at weddings thing really threw me - I wasn't aware of it at all and I wondered why, then I realised that I've been to only one Irish wedding, despite having a massive family and lots of Irish friends. Why? Because my cousins didn't invite cousins (I didn't either) as there are just too many of them (over 100) and only one - yes one solitary person - out of my group of friends growing up is married and she had a tiny ceremony and invited nobody. Every other person I grew up with is single and I'm in my 40s. Isn't that mad? To totally buck the trend, I got married at 25 and am still married.

In terms of differences, the main one that stood out to me was how death is handled, as others have mentioned. My sister's friend died at 17 and we went down to her house to see the body laid out on the bed. People were lying with her, touching her and such. There were lots of children there. When my DH's English granny died, I was totally shocked at how the whole thing went - I was asked to keep the chidren (who were small at the time) at home rather than go to the funeral, which I was very upset about (but didn't say anything). No one would ever do that in Ireland. There was a tiny reception at DH's aunt's house afterwards and it was awful - no stories told, no laughing. It was years ago and it still upsets me - I got in a panic with DH aftewards saying he must not allow a funeral like that to be held for me - I want everyone there, I want it loud. I didn't realise how important it was to me until I experienced something so flat and lacking in energy.

The other small difference is chattiness. Every time I go back to Ireland I'm always surprised when some stranger starts talking to me. I'm used to everyone minding their own business in England so I'm not prepared for the random conversations at bus stops and shop counters. I don't know what I prefer - sometimes I like a random chat, sometimes I'm more in the mood to just get on with it and ignore everyone!

The percentage of students attending fee paying schools is about the same in Ireland and the U.K. About 7% in each.

Fees in Ireland are much lower than in the U.K. and students tend to fall in to one of two categories.
Outside Dublin there are Protestant schools that were to traditionally cater for those who didn’t want to go to the local non fee paying Catholic schools. The Protestant block grant is available so less wealthy people of a minority religion would have some or all of their fees paid for indirectly by the State,

South Dublin fee paying schools, some of these are also Protestant some students can get grants but it is mostly better off families of any religion or none.

Fair.

The posh people in cork have less notions than the posh people in SoCo Dublin.

Not possible to live in the same sort of bubble I suppose. There is definitely a posh cork accent but I’m not sure it really matters to people outside of cork.

Sure the communion and the debs are just practice for the wedding!

I think having the debs to look forward to is good in exam year. And it's the end of an era when the year group splits up.
But the drama is high level! And the food around the local hotels isn't great. I must ask my kids if they enjoyed it?

Irish funerals have evening events attached to them to facilitate people who can’t make a day time funeral. There is a removal and possibly a wake or a rosary at the home or funeral home.

You might do a 4 hour round trip after work to go to a removal for 30 minutes and offer your condolences. It is a mark of respect and support.

I’m in Liverpool and sometimes I think we have a lot more common ground between Ireland than we do with Southern England. It always makes me laugh on MN when people are enraged by unannounced visitors, and who are scared of opening the front door. When I was young everyone just had an open house and you’d just let yourself in through the back door. That went for all family, friends and neighbours.

The girls I know doing it now don’t seem to be traumatised, or see it more than an optional rite of passage. I have twin girls living across the road who had their debs this year — for a night they were gravy-coloured and wearing eyelashes that must have obscured their vision. The rest of the time, they’re playing camogie at a high level and rowing, and running in and out in GAA shirts and runners without giving a thought to how they present in terms of conventional femininity.

It’s the Rose of Tralee I’d like to end.