To think disruptive behaviour in schools is out of hand?

@Fearfulsaints, thank you very much for your reply, I do appreciate it, but it doesn't suggest that you are expecting much academic success from your tuition.

But you aren't the poster I was replying to?

Parents who successfully homeschool dont always teach all the subjects themselves. So they might get
tutors, use online schools or home ed groups to cover the sciences.

But actually there arent many checks and you could just not teach science at all if you felt that wasnt suitable for your childs sen. The law says something about a suitable full time education but doesnt seem to specify what it is. My son is in an sen school and they dont do gcses or study all the subjects, but do therapies so I guess a home schooler is ok to do that too. Also children in school fail science gcse often enough.

What wrong with small children sitting on their parents lap on a busy train when adults are standing, that's the way l was brought up.

Nonsense. I and many many others did just that. Took my well behaved, eager to learn child out of state as they couldn’t get an education there due to others.

Asking the question very openly, how qualified does a person need to be to home school? DH and I took our only child away to travel for six months to celebrate DH's return from near death when DC was 8, with the school's blessing. I am reasonably well educated, but in humanities. Teaching an 8 year old routine stuff was difficult, but museums and models saved my bacon. I don't think I could home ed a clever teen in the sciences. Please answer if you have managed it.

Wrong end of the stick dear.

It's blatant that you would refuse either of those options, yet you expect others to do exactly that. If you don't want to home school your child even though you say it's not suitable due to disruption, how can you expect others to home school their child when the school is not suitable due to inadequate funding?

All children have the right to a suitable education.

Funny how people are so quick to shout ‘it’s a child’s legal right to receive an education’ when it’s a SEN child, and everyone’s expected to bend over backwards to accommodate it - but everyone affected negatively can just lump it. Home school or pay private 😂

What an indictment of the Secretary of State for Education that the immediate responses to my comment are that she would not be interested enough to glance over this thread? which, in my experience has been one of the most constructive education threads to which I have had the privilege of contributing. Thank you to everyone who has dobbed in their views. Brilliant thoughtful contributions from every point of view. Yes politics, but much much more concern that none of our kids are getting the education they need to thrive and contribute their best as adults. We are fucking this up big time.

If your child isn't recieving a decent education, you are free to home school. Or pay private.

Underachieving is not the same as being disruptive though.

Actually it is your problem, whether you like it or not.

Unless proper provision is made for them, these children will be educated alongside your child regardless of whether it reduces the quality of education available to your child. That's the reality of the situation. The only way forward is to make alternative provision more widely available from the start, so it's not just children in absolute crisis that qualify.

If you want to remove your children from school and educate them yourself, it's of course up to you to provide an education which focuses solely on their needs.

I think she’s totally immune to this stuff.

She doesn't give a shit. She isn't interested in actual education.

Wow 🙁

I don’t want them to do much more than stop putting barriers up for dc who do want to learn doing so.

Quit the ridiculous VAT style policy that puts more dc in state and lowers access out of it, and stop trying to use parents who do care to improve the system without extra funding or other better changes.

Has anyone sent a link to this thread to Bridget Philipson? She really needs to read it.

If there was a way to get DS what he desperately needed without impacting others’ education, then of course I and most decent humans would have done that. The fact that there isn’t needs to be laid at the door of the LA’s and education policy of successive governments, not of individual parents.

I have just missed out a huge chunk of posts between the above and now, but it all comes down to money, or the ability to fund what's needed. Councils can't, and most ordinary people can't find the £100k pa that individually tailored SEN provision costs. So who pays? If the parents can't, and the local authority is (IMO correctly) spending their budget on the NT majority, who will mostly pay tax in the future to repay the investment.

Home. Anywhere but my child’s classroom. I don’t really care, it’s not my problem. My child being able to receive a decent education because of constant disruption is my concern.

Again, not my problem. ‘They’re entitled to an education for their child…’ well so is mine, and isn’t getting one. Neither are thirty other children in that class. So we’ll throw the rest of class under the bus to benefit one, who’s no more special or deserving than the others?

Everyone wants their child’s needs to be met. That’s my point. But meeting those needs shouldn’t come at other’s expense and detriment.

OP: To answer your question, let's talk, honestly, about the 'RETENTION' part of that throwaway phrase, 'recruitment and retention'.

I'm one of many, many thousands of experienced teachers who have decided enough is enough over the last couple of years. After over a decade, I left at Christmas, and despite being an 'outstanding teacher' and award-winning tutor, you could never tempt me back into the classroom. If you dig into the reasons why there are so many of us jumping ship, pay is seldom an issue. But increasingly - go to somewhere like Teacher Tapp for validation - you'll find that behaviour is closing the gap on workload.

Tutoring is fulfilling in so many ways that teaching no longer was ...

Too many of us who are driven and enthusiastic educators, and subject specialists too, are finding that they spend astronomical amounts of time playing whack-a-mole managing student behaviour (and the paperwork outside of lesson time which it entails), and rarely reaching the silent majority who'd like to learn. And we are not backed up for 'holding the line', whatever senior management might say.

Part of the problem is the way that schools are judged on exclusions, as if poor student behaviour is their fault. Internally, despite a LOT of talk to the contrary, individual teachers are also judged when students throw furniture around the room, refuse to cooperate, etc. Heck, they're even judged when truanting students from other classes come into our rooms and cause havoc. In some schools, behaviour systems are overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of students involved. You get into a situation where you are encouraged to take a tough line on unacceptable behaviour, then criticised when you do, because it adds to senior leadership's workload / hassle.

I can personally vouch for situations where I could not remove someone from a class for refusing to do any work, 'because they were not impacting anyone else's learning'. But within a fortnight, the entire class downed tools when they realised that the senior team were not punishing this attitude.

That's to say nothing of my experience at another school where a student followed me home after school and assaulted me within 50 yards of my home - and I was expected to teach them as if nothing had happened after a short exclusion.

Experienced teachers get fed up when REALLY awful behaviour - which school should be teaching kids will cause them real problems in the adult world - is met with excuses, and/or parent hostility. I get that no-one wants to feel accused of being a bad parent, but our combined job is to help these youngsters survive in the adult world.

Frankly, and from experience - I should not feel that there are areas of a school which I should avoid at breaks or lunchtimes. Similarly, if there are multiple times a week when I feel genuinely afraid for my physical safety, and I have no backup, then I need to find another place to work. Which other profession has to look over their shoulder when they are walking home from the Co-op with a couple of bags of shopping?

To sum up: behaviour IS completely out of hand. Some of that is down to schools, but a lot of it is down to parents. Either way (and not including myself here), many of the best and brightest aren't willing to work under these job conditions.

We recently moved house to a tiny village in a different local authority to get our teenagers away from the schools in the city we lived in. They went to an enormous school full of young people with behavioural issues where both were bullied and assaulted to the point where one was terrified to attend. Now attending a tiny school with minimal behaviour issues.

I actually rated the teaching staff highly but the behaviour policies were unbelievably bad. The consequence to the 15yo boy who choked my 12yo to the point of leaving marks on his neck was a day in reflection....

It's night and day. My young people are so much more relaxed and able to learn without that constant anxiety about when they're next going to be assaulted.

I'm a former primary teacher. Behavioural issues are unbelievable. Even from nursery age. Some of these children genuinely haven't a chance. The vicious circle of poverty and antisocial behaviour is at the bottom of this. This alongside the fact that schools are being asked to cater to SEN children with high needs, but not given enough money to make it work... the system is broken and all the children are being failed.

And where would you remove them to? What a daft post. The support really isn't there.

Anyone who is DISRUPTIVE should be.educated separately on the grounds that it is bad enough that the wild bunch don't achieve but it would be a crime if the well disposed were not allowed to achieve either.