To think disruptive behaviour in schools is out of hand?

Absolutely right twinkletoes - it is so sad to see teachers who clearly get it, and care, and want to do the best for every student, being let down by a system that is underfunded and under-resourced. I find the wait times I am hearing for speech therapy hard to stomach - how much time children are waiting when they are passing through critical foundational years of development and education. Meanwhile parents are resorting to trawling the internet and books for information on how to be their child's therapist. It's absolutely mad that in 2025 this is happening. What happened to the optimism of the 90s and 00s when things were supposed to get better?

Everything seems so broken across all parts of public services in the UK and it's very sad. I can't help but think that if education, health and social services had better funding in the first place it would reduce costs later down the line but they all seem to be robbing Peter to pay Paul and it seems impossible to interrupt the destructive cycle. Any time extra funding is announced it's like 1% of the amounts needed to actually make any difference which just seems completely pointless. Instead of putting large but insufficient amounts into each service, which immediately get swallowed up by the gaping holes/problems which are there from decades of neglect, someone needs to commission an expert report into all of these systems and how they connect, and then a long term plan needs to be made probably focusing on one area at a time. I don't know how realistic that is - probably not very, unfortunately. Maybe our system of government where everything can change every few years is part of the problem, that was perhaps best for a simpler time but these days everything is more complex and there needs to be a much longer-term vision that can't just be scrapped or ruined by subsequent governments.

Even with the NHS for example with the ageing population costs - it's been known for decades that there would be an explosion in the number of older people needing more care but apparently it's now a surprise and no hospital is prepared for it? It doesn't make sense.

All admirable and true.
but how do I meet the ‘indvidual’ needs of 4 children with EHCPs, 4 on support plans, 3 that are causing concern and are being ‘monitored’ for now and then teach the rest of my mixed age class to the expected standard and beyond - don’t lower the expectations!
All with a TA in the morning only.
It isn’t possible.
I crawled to the Summer, we have been back 8 days and I’m done.
I am experienced and well trained. I cannot give each one of the children with SEN what they need without even thinking about the other children. As one pertinent example: One child needs a visual timetable of the day - no problem, we have a class one, after all what benefits one can benefit all.
Except that one child has trauma and anxiety and will become dysregulated if he sees that we are doing something he doesn’t enjoy later.
Whose needs do I choose to meet?
Who will do the speech and language interventions? When?
Who is making the alternative resources and teaching them to use colourful semantics?
I cannot just teach anymore.
I am exhausted.

Thats great for your daughter 😍 yes lots of SEN children get bullied too its nasty.

My DD1 (16) is now in a specialist college like that, she’s in their sixth form. I really wish we could have got her there earlier during her education, but it was such a battle to get her an EHCP. She loves going there and has settled in well.

And no, she wasn’t disruptive in the state high school, though her attendance was poor from year 10 onwards. But she was bullied badly by another girl with SEN, who had been expelled from 5 previous schools.

SEN children can also frequently be victims of bullying rather than disrupters.

I agree. Actually I think the solution is outreach to these parents but much earlier than secondary.

Some parents are just plain scared of school and some teach their kids useful things like that rules are ALL BAD including speed limits in hospital car parks. And some think school is out to get their kid when kid doesn’t seem to know the basics of good behaviour.

We need more SEN provision end of. Ive been a secondary school teacher for about 15 years, the last 5 of working in SEN school, I could never go back to mainstream now. My class sizes are 10 max, usually about 7. The support for each child is amazing, I get to plan for each kid and support each kid throughout lessons, no one misses out.

I've worked in schools and I'm afraid that your other posts and your use of hyperbole give you away.

You're policing even the vocabulary the SENCO uses about your child? Observing they have 'a high, squeaky voice' isn't abusive FFS! What adjectives have you insisted they use instead? 'Piercingly delicate' 'pertaining to the higher registers of volume'?

You seem determined to portray your child as this 'absolutely beautiful', special, fascinating creature that is cruelly misunderstood? I strongly suspect the school and its teachers understand you and your child all too well.

Michaela is a great example of what’s done right. I think kids actually appreciate clear structure and boundaries. Michaela has a really diverse intake with high levels of deprivation. It’s changing lives. However you need to apply to go there and I think it means that whatever the kids background their parent values education and has signed up for the regime. There is a buy in. I’m a state school teacher and the worst disruption is by kids whose parents hate school with a passion and enable their kids. To misbehave. Schools have to educate this cohort though and if you don’t by excluding them from education you are going to be paying for them their entire life. Unfortunately it comes down to funding in education.

No but how can they get the qualifications if the parent gets in the way of it. It seems like parents can make unfair decisions that disrupt kids getting into uni and certainly drag out. All their mates that are in schools would be off to uni whilst they get left far far behind.

You are playing the martyr here! You also say your son is disruptive then say he isn't at all which is confusing.

You cannot adopt the immature approach that it's just people that don't like kids! Please read the post that's within the last couple of pages of this thread from a primary school teacher who says he avd his colleagues are at their wits end and looking to get out of the profession after just a week or two back in the job as primary school teacher! Because so many kids are undisciplined, volatile, tormenting and traumatising other kids and threatening teachers! And this is primary school kids!

Excuses cannot be made, we aren't suddenly in a world is ND! We are in a world where discipline has stopped. There's no fear of consequence at school because there's no consequences at home. How is this about people not liking kids? It's about the fear that a lot of kids will fail exams because of the disruption of others, the fear that this country will end up with mass shortage of teachers because no one wants to keep doing the job, it's about the NHS ring collapsed in terms of assesment of ND because every other parent wants to excuse bad behaviour with.

You seem so bloody blind to the truth of what's happening and coming out with nonsense extreme comments.

I think you child is extremely lucky to have a parent like you to support his learning.

They could do an access course, go to the open university, do a foundation year, or some courses will let you on with work experience relevant to the field. There are also other level 2 qualifications that arent gcse but are considered the same.

It would be an obstacle but not insurmountable. The legal requirement for education is a suitable full time education for thier age, ability and aptitude . So i'd think if you had a child that might go to university, doing no qualifications at all would mean you hadn't provided a suitable education.

How does that work if they want to go to uni etc and need to have exam results?

Oh dear, you are projecting because you've no control over your kid! The fact you simper that he's disruptive but really beautiful is just weird! The parents of the other kids in class that he's disrupting don't care how beautiful you think he is, you scream about his right to education but you are happy for him to destroy education for everyone else around him! Nobody is talking about borstals or institutions but your child shouldn't be allowed to cause disruption day and day out to all the other kids - that's fairness and common sense!

Oh so you are trying to tell lies about me now and say it was all about me sitting in the garden? That's some childish twisting of what I said! I said his rage is abnormal and the way he is with his parents is horrific! I've also heard him hit his mother in the face as well as threatening his parents - and you are telling me that I should enjoy having to hear that!
That kid behind me is a kid that if I had kids, I wouldn't him near them at school because his rage is dangerous! It'll be even more dangerous when he's an adolescent! When he's getting dragged into a custody suite screaming at the coppers! You are the problem because you are weak, you are simpering and hate discipline and want to make excuses for every nasty undisciplined kid!

My 51 year old brother has been referred for an ADHD assessment but he's been told it'll be about 8 years waiting list! And that's because people like you who are weak parents want a medical justification for why their kids are out of control!

And since his placement in state I have had to fight, and fight against the horrible sentiments that I see in this thread. I’ve had to fight against his SENCO using the term ‘handicapped’ to describe him. Fight against SENCO wording such as DC has a ‘tiny, squeaky voice’ or ‘just sits there not taking on instruction’ - when DC is actually reciting all phonic lessons at home.

Some people just seem to really dislike children or anything that impacts their idea of a perfect life.

@Arraminta
@Buddingbudde

Because schools twist the term ‘disruptive’. In fact I think the official line is ‘incompatible with the efficient use of resources’. My DC - at preschool - had a little book that he loved. The SENCO there taught him how to use it, and he’d point to the pictures to communicate his needs.

He had a placement in state school, but because he used this book : that was their reasoning for rejecting his placement.

The LA upped their funding giving the school £10000 and training on how to use the book (DC already knew how to use it).
He was reluctantly given a school place.

Within 2 weeks of being in state - the book was abandoned.
In my view, DC is not disruptive - he is extremely quiet. I’m sure you’d love the term ‘mute’ - so you can give DC a label.

Yet apparently his ‘book’ would cause him to be ‘disruptive’ to others.

Sorry Billy. Weird answer - Why would you think she would be 'messing around'? It's school - education - it matters for her, it can affect her entire future - please let her know that, and guide her yourself?? Even though she may not yet understand herself?, dear parent? x

I feel like we need some kind of mission statement for education. To decide what as a country we actually want it to do.

My effort is below:

The aim of the education system is to ensure that all citizens are properly equipped for life in modern Britain. All children should have learnt to treat one another and their teachers with respect and to work cooperatively with one another. All children should acquire core skills in numeracy, to be able to read and write fluently and to speak, discuss and answer questions. All children should have learnt to evaluate information such as news articles and to reason about practical numerical matters such as personal finances. They should understand the legal and political system in the UK and their role in it as citizens of a democracy.

All children should be prepared by their education to contribute to the economy of the UK through either employment or entreprenership.

Any children who are unable to achieve the above due to disability should be given extra support to achieve these goals as far as possible.

Those children who show the necessary aptitude and interest should have their intellectual skills stretched and be prepared for rigorous and challenging University courses.

Children who would prefer to do so should be given the opportunity to develop more practical skills in areas such as IT and business and high quality vocational training in trades or other sectors of the economy where skills are required.

Exactly.

It absolutely is feasible.

It’s just not a priority, despite the fact that it makes economic as well as social sense.

Investing in excellent quality, child centred, nurturing education will prevent huge amounts of state spending in future, because it will reduce a considerable number of societal problems that cost us a fortune.

Around 50% of prisoners were excluded from school, for starters.

If education weren’t treated like a political football to be tossed here there and everywhere every five years to suit the agenda of each successive government, and we were prepared to invest, be patient and see decreasing class sizes as a ten year goal that couldn’t be scrapped by a new incoming government to save some cash, then we could revolutionise education in this country and bring about numerous benefits for our future society.

It's about priorities in my mind and the government does not prioritise education. Their kids don't have to suffer through the same things that other kids do.

I’m in Scotland. We don’t have PRUs. There was only one permanent exclusion in the whole of Scotland in 2023/24. That’s treated as some sort of success. I think if all the kids hospitalised by violent bullies who are expected to go back unto
the same school as their abuser. It’s a truly disgusting situation.

I’m a primary teacher and I’m already exhausted and done in with the level of behaviour yet again. Nothing is being done and I do really fear for the future when these children become the adults in charge.
There are 5 children in my class who would never have been in mainstream education in the past. They can’t cope, the staff can’t cope and the other children can’t cope. We are traumatising all of these children.

There's no respect and a culture of expectation. There are threats of violence from children as young as 3 upwards, swearing, refusal to follow simple instructions.

We can’t teach the ones who are ready to and want to learn.

Like most of my colleagues I need to escape.

As someone who works in a PRU, we have them… they’re PRUs.

And FWIW all the kids in my small PRU are there because of behaviour issues that meant that they couldn’t be in mainstream anymore… out of the whole population 97% are FSM/PP, 85% have SEND, 43% are or have been looked after and 62% have attendance of 50% or less (just checked our database for the exact numbers).

So it’s not really a case of “well there should be somewhere for the badly behaved”, it’s actually a case of “there should be somewhere for the poor, disadvantaged and vulnerable”. When put like that it seems much easier to see what needs to be done and sounds way less reasonable to chuck them out of school.