To think disruptive behaviour in schools is out of hand?

"18% 16-18yr olds go to private school, probably for this reason a lot of the time."

I doubt that's the reason because I doubt you get the same disruptive behaviour in post 16 education.

If we adults provide a world for children that they can’t cope with - that’s on us, not them.

So it's the teachers fault there is abusive, aggressive and violent pupils, and combatative, abusive parents?
Would love to know how!

From experience, bugger all, they don't care

I loved working in that school.

@InMyShowgirlEra

I disagree though. The strongest head I worked for made her team of teachers realise that we are accountable for behaviour as teachers, and we need a strong behaviour in place that is clearly understood by the whole team - along with strong planning that she would check every Monday. And the head was extremely visible and would intervene if a situation got out of hand.

We had really tough children, but no exclusions and a team effort with good differentiation and children feeling positive about themselves.

I agree with you wholeheartedly when you talk about parental influence. There was absolutely no disruption when I was at school - mid 50’s to late 60’s. My parents instilled in my sister and me, that a good education was paramount, and I would never have wanted to disappoint them. I presume that other pupils’ parents shared the same ethos.

But we also had very firm boundaries, and I think that some parents today are less inclined to enforce rules around respect and responsibility.

I feel very sad for children whose learning is compromised by the unruly behaviour of some. It’s unjust. I also feel for teachers who try their very best to fulfill their roles, and have little or no access to workable solutions for unacceptable behaviour.

It’s not about underachieving children ffs!

The post is about the unprecedented rise in poor behaviour, which disrupts the teaching and learning in state schools.

Behaviour has NEVER been as bad as these past few years…it’s out of control in some schools/areas. I know…I teach (well, try to!) in one such school. We have fewer staff than ever (our academy trust has announced that it is no longer replacing support staff when they leave, and will no longer employ supply teachers when a teacher is off!) This kind of approach is devastating in schools.

We have a massive amount of SEND needs, with SEND budgets slashed to breaking point, a mental health crisis that has spiralled exponentially since covid and successive governments failing to tackle any of this!

There’s always been children who need extra support or an individual approach to allow them to access the curriculum…we completely understand this, and do our utmost to ensure they experience some success. No teacher wants to see a child struggle academically.

However, the shift in behaviour from some students/families is beyond what we can reasonably expect to manage.

This is what the OP is referring to, not children who struggle academically.

It's refusing to hold students accountable for their own decisions and instead pushing it onto teachers which has got us into this mess and caused a recruitment crisis. If a child is actively disrupting lessons and being disrespectful, that's not the fault of the school- they made a choice.

Where are the disruptive children being taught while the school helps them? In the mainstream classroom?

Exactly, but the 'how dare you!! Think of the children!!' Posts are quick on this subject. But they're never clear on why the only children who should be considered are the feral, violent, disruptive ones! All other children? Mehh... collateral damage...

I think there has been a massive shift over the past decade or so, where schools jump to label and diagnose children - rather than address the support in place.

Schools prefer to say there is an issue with this child rather than there is an issue with the environment and the support that we are giving a child.

I’m all for a diagnosis if it leads to positive outcomes and a full understanding of a child’s individual needs, but an under resourced system means we can’t cope.

Schools should always adopt the social model of disability rather than the medical model of disability.

We point the finger of blame at the child and the parent and that is wrong. If society is shifting then schools need to shift too and they should serve their local community.

Many secondary schools have adopted that approach, but for a lot of pupils, it would cause massive anxiety. I went to a fairly strict private school but because behaviour was good at all times and any serious incidents resulted in expulsion, there was no need for draconian, terrifying policies of instant detentions for looking out of the window and talking in the corridor, or for reciting poetry at lunch or any of that.

There should be non-private options for pupils who can behave well without needing constant micromanagement.

Sure, send the ones who can't to a super strict school, but why should the good kids have to go to school in prison like conditions because of the disruptive ones?

This is spot on. I mentioned on the high school toilet thread about a shift in attitudes. Things have definitely changed in the last five years.

Hard agree, but schools seem unwilling to nip poor behaviour in the bud. I think they see it as suffocating a child’s freedom of expression or some such nonsense.

I have, and I appreciate the job satisfaction for some teachers working in PRUs. I also know someone who has left teaching as a result of working in a PRU. However, PRUs are for the hardest to reach pupils. What you are suggesting is more far-reaching - 1,000s of pupils segregated because they disrupt lessons. Schools like Michaela in London and Mercia in Sheffield, controversial though they are, have implemented behaviour policies which successfully nip poor behaviour in the bud. The solution to low-level disruption lies not in creating new schools, but improving the ones we have.

@Absentosaur

Times is conservative! You won’t find an article like that in the Guardian!!

There's not many professions other than teaching and learning support where you can be hit and abused by someone, blamed for it, and then subjected to the same person the next day.

I also think that people severely overestimate how many people out there in the general public are willing or would be willing to to work with disruptive children, aggressive children, children who hurt you, children with a high level of need, children who are unable to regulate emotionally and psychologically, work with difficult families, work in childrens mental health etc.

In the medical and psychology fields, very few professionals want to work in child (or even adult) mental health comparatively to other fields. There a very few physicists or historians or mathematicians out there that want to work teaching physics or history or maths to agressive, disruptive or disrespectful kids.

It's admirable that people work in such roles but it's all very well and good saying more SEND provision needs to be built, children need more CAHMS support, there needs to be more provision for disruptive or dangerous children etc. but who's going to work all these jobs?! We have a severe teacher shortage as it is and that's just for mainstream children.

When I was teaching I used to occasionally fantasise about a drill sergeant showing up in my classroom and removing the worst behaving students and bringing them back after an hour of drill practise in the rain. I still quite like the idea, I don't think there's many children who couldn't rein in their desire to shout, swear, throw things and cause chaos if they knew the instant consequence was push-ups and marching on the playground. How much can it cost to get an ex-soldier who doesn't much like children to patrol the corridors and collect naughty children 30 hours a week? I bet they'd only have to take most of them out once.

I jest. Sort of.

Well they won't learn at school will they if they are pissballing about. State schools tend to pander to the badly behaved and expect the well behaved kids to suffer

Disruptive behaviour is often associate with SEN, but I just want to say this is not always the case…

my son is autistic and is likely one of the best behaved students in his school - he just tests me at home 😂

in my daughters class there have been quite a few children who are very disruptive, some of which don’t have Sen, they just have anger issues and don’t like being told what to by teachers. My daughter has some degree of SEN, mainly academic and speech issues but she goes under the radar as she’s not causing a fuss in the class, she’s no problem to the teachers but this is causing her crippling anxiety levels that the school refuses to to acknowledge as she seems fine there….

They are publicly funded and can’t select out anybody because it’s their local authority that sets the rules. If parents of SEND children don’t choose it I can only imagine Wembley is offering a better alternative provision in another school. Michaela has to take SEND students with the school named in their EHCP as first priority, according to their admissions policy. Then it is looked after children and siblings - very much in line with all state funded admissions policies.

I am also surprised that nobody has squeaked up and said that they weren’t allowed to send their child there if Michaela is breaking the rules.

This isnt fair on the kids that want to be there but struggle academically though. My brother was put in one of these classes because he had dyslexia which wasnt diagnosed. He failed miserably at school but excelled once at college and he was given the chance