To think disruptive behaviour in schools is out of hand?

Why do you assume they'd turn to crime?
Many teenagers misbehave in school because they simply don't want to be there.
They are bored, frustrated and full of hormonal energy.
But if they were allowed to leave and work/volunteer doing something they actually want to do their behaviour would change.

You can only be sent to jail if you commit a crime first. Which more serious crimials would you release early to make space for these children in jail? And once they are released with a criminal record then what? More crimes. They'd need to commit some pretty serious crimes to be given lengthy prison sentences initially.

Because they'd be fasttracked to jail. And the younger kids would see what messing about at school leads to.

You think kicking kids out onto the streets with no education would lead to less crime? How so?

There are plenty of parents who want good outcomes and foster a good attitude with their dc (those with SEN included).

The gov seems intent on putting up barriers to that so we must all be disrupted.

But there would be less crime?

The argument against is always about age and social needs. But if a child has to repeat a year more than once, they likely have an educational need and would benefit from a specialist education.

If repeating a year more than once was the key admission criteria for specialist, it would save a ton of grief for parents of SEN children (and councils if they dared to admit it) leaving only physical disabilities, which mainstream schools should cater for anyway, and sensory disabilities (hearing/sight) which are fairly straightforward in determining need (compared to cognitive need - not saying it's easy for any).

The problem I forsee would be when you head towards GCSE level where you may have a child who excels in maths/science but struggles with literacy. Where should they go? But...if the literacy needs were addressed when young because they'd had to repeat y1, would that happen?

The messege to get through to who? Those of you that think this is a good idea when the crime you desperately desire impacts your family and community?

I've said the same many times on MN that instead of kids moving through school according to age, it should be according to ability, with kids who havn't progressed for whatever reason, being "held back" to keep being taught the basics.

It's wasting everyone's time to keep pushing kids through the years, trying to teach them more complicated things/subjects when they're barely numerate/literate. Really no point trying to teach Shakespeare to a kid that struggles with a "Janet and John" book (or modern equivalent of starter book). Likewise no point trying to teach Physics of Maths equations to kids who can't add/subject anything more than single numbers and who doesn't know their times tables/prime numbers nor how to multiple/divide. By pushing them through, it causes them to lose confidence, lose interest, become disengaged thus fuelling disruption etc.

Pretty much nailed it!

blame the government for woefully underfunding and decimating SEN education and expecting mainstream schools to be able to cope.

blame the parents of the feral (non-SEN) kids for not giving them boundaries and discipline.

none of it is the fault of the schools or teachers.

Or maybe let them get a job or do volunteer work.
For example charity shops are desperate for volunteers. Many can't take donations because they don't have anyone to sort them.
Some teens would actually prefer to be doing something like that instead of being in school.

This is a great idea, actually.

Yes, we have that system in place in my country. Marks/grades from all the subjects since you are 8 or 9 years old. You get bad marks for not completing your homework, bad behaviour, poor performance in tests, etc. You can be held back a year, if you do poorly, so most of students/parents try their best for the kids to behave. BUT parents do have authority at home and are respected. The general message to the kids at school/home is that they have duties first and only then rights. Most of kids/teenagers work really hard, cause there is no generous benefit system, so you can't simply sit at your parental home playing games, claiming some benefit or MH issues and do nothing else. The UK system is so very different that I don't think people here would happily accept this. So many times I read here that the elders don't deserve respect just because they are elders. So here you go, these are the consequences.

Schools need to prioritise the kids that actually want to learn. The messers should not even be a consideration, kick them out and let them wander the streets all day, fasttrack them to prison. It won't take long for the message to get through.

Grammars do sound good, any selection tends to change things. We were lucky with a comp but house prices were high although still mixed as in London.

I haven’t watched but I often wonder why people consent to various shows.

But yes this is awful for other students too.

Haven't rtft but I watched Educating Yorkshire the other day, a 12yo boy had a massive tantrum, kicking things, shouting and screaming at staff, banging doors etc all because he was asked to spit his chewing gum out. He then turned on the tears and had members of staff pandering to him. No thought given to the rest of the class who had their learning disrupted and had to deal with him kicking chairs around and shouting/screaming.

I would suggest that the well behaved kids are not being respected and valued if we make them share a class with the very disruptive kids. Why should their work get destroyed? Why should they have to walk on eggshells for fear of triggering some kind of attack?

And you completely missed my reasoning for my stance ie funding.
Inclusion as a concept is great, inclusion in reality is a mess because it isn't correctly funded to be able to do it properly. In that scenario everyone suffers and no child gets rhe education they deserve.

@twistyizzy

Ok, we’ll have to agree to disagree because I strongly believe that inclusion is a core principle of any society.

“Inclusion, as best defined, means that the members of an environment feel that they are valued, respected, and included regardless of their background or identity. They have the same opportunities as others, and they are not overlooked or excluded.”

As my DC was nearly excluded, I feel extremely strongly about this and it will provoke a very strong reaction from me if we are moving towards a society that encourages exclusion.

This is why we were so determined our DDs went to a grammar school. There was virtually zero classroom disruption and what little there was was immediately stamped out. So it was already academically inclined girls also studying in a peaceful, pro active environment. Needless to say, exam results were superb.

Previously I'd worked in city comprehensives and my day comprised mainly of crowd control.

If only there was a hub! I reckon most of the disruptive kids will stay in class kicking off and smashing stuff up just like they do now.