To think disruptive behaviour in schools is out of hand?

Whilst I agree, what is the answer? Schools/society will never change the feckless parents who don't support the school's actions, so, like for the past 50 years, kids will continue to get detentions and they'll continue to not care they've got detentions. Something needs to change. 50 years! It's insanity to continue doing the same thing and expect different results. We need a sanction/punishment system that works without the expectation of parents stepping up, as that will simply never happen. We have to deal with the real world, not what your "perfect" world looks like!

They aren’t working as too many parents don’t expect their DC’s to follow school rules without questioning.
DC’s knew that if they broke a school rule, their school would call us into the school (difficult when you work full time) and we would 100% support the school with whatever punishment was handed out. Parents, students and the school signed up to a behaviour agreement at the start of each school year so everyone was aware of the expectations and consequences.
Behaviour was generally good and lesson time wasnt disrupted .

The point is that existing punishments clearly aren't working. So something has to change.

I don’t think teachers and schools need to be more imaginative. Students need to be made aware of the rules and what happens if they are broken. Parents need to support schools and ensure their DC’s are aware of their expectations regarding behaviour.
Students who break rules aren’t clever or special.

I agree that we need to think outside the box more re sanctions/punishments. A lot of kids regard detentions as just part of the normal school day so they're really not bothered about getting them. There was a thread on here over the weekend about a daughter who was getting regular detentions for rolling her skirt up - the "punishment" clearly wasn't having any effect/impact at all. Schools/teachers need to be more imaginative.

There were disruptive kids 50 years ago, 25 years, ago, etc., long before "scrolling".

Yes, if appropriate, just depends on what they'll miss as the teachers can't be expected to catch up entire topics that have been missed due to skipping. But, then again, if we didn't have this obsession with moving up years, secondary teaching could be transformed into modules rather than years (like Uni) so pupils could move through school quicker/slower according to taking modules (of mixed ages) rather than full years.

Interesting article I read recently somewhere about a headteacher who turned around a failing school by insistent the parents of a disruptive child come into the school and sit at the back of a child’s classes all day to monitor how they act. No child wanted this to happen as parents are so embarrassing so all of a sudden started behaving. Meaningful consequences have to be found for poor behaviour.

The main problem is twofold. Firstly, the scrolling generation have no comcentration span and no concept of delayed gratification. Secondly, weak parenting with no boundaries and no support for school rules and discipline.

Do you think we should bring back children skipping a year as well if it's suitable for them? I know a few older people who did that when they were at school and it seems to have been a positive experience for them.

It was like that at my crap comp in the 70s! Successive governments have had 50 years to sort out the disruption, but have failed to tackle it, in fact, it sounds like disruption/bullying etc has got worse rather than better. It's time we accepted the fact that the comprehensive "one size fits all" approach is a failure, but the politicians are so wedded to the idea that they're incapable of changing it.

As a PP said, we need a return to options, i.e. grammars, technical schools, specialist schools etc to give kids a proper choice of a school that suits them. We've had this "illusion" of choice where a kid can choose from a variety of local comps, but that's no choice at all as most comps do similar things.

We also need to change so that repeating a year becomes normal for those who need it, rather than something exceptional for a tiny number of people due to exceptional circumstances. And whilst we're at it, scrap the moving up a year based only on age - it should be on ability.

I think all options need to be explored before excluding a child. I’m not a fan of repeating a year, but better than exclusion.

Safer school officers. I think a lot of parents would engage more if schools were more open and transparent. An EHCP system that is impossible to navigate - with LA’s and schools having to break the law. Confident parenting and confident teaching which involves a genuine love of children, making them feel safe and clear boundaries - with a school working together as a team, including parents within that team.

No not really.
I think in some circumstances repeating a year may be helpful for a child.
Unfortunately it's just not a "thing" in UK schools.

Does that make sense to you?

The setting I work at (part time) were saying we’d have an incredibly difficult child for part of the day (throwing chairs etc).
First he sat away, then we tried to engage (no eye contact) but by placing something in front of him, then he engaged, then he opened up, then he came and held our hands, then he wanted to help us, then we told him how clever he was, then he walked round holding our hands for the rest of the session.

All I saw was initial fear, a need to feel safe, and then a calm child once he knew he was in a place where he felt accepted and wanted.

We mustn’t exclude children or support an ethos that excludes children.
This child could go two ways

1. adults feel this child is unteachable, he never feels accepted or safe - exclusions and a further drain on society or
2. adults empathise, are willing to adapt their approach and find a way to make this child feel positive about himself. Then he will engage.

Nothing wrong with factory work (although these days it's more warehouse/distribution work).

Factory work ?

So much of this comes down to parenting, and whether parents support the school. Secondary schools are often slammed on here for being so hard on kids with constant sanctions, detentions and isolations. In my opinion these do work - disrupt the class and get removed. The problem is when the parents don’t support it which just teaches the kids that the sanctions are basically optional. The triangular partnership between school, pupil and parent is so crucial.

My kids are at a grammar. I won’t pretend it’s the same a deprived area comp because it’s not, but of course there’s still bad behaviour and bloody hell the school is tough on sanctions. Nothing is ever left to slide. Every missed homework is recorded, and add up to detentions very quickly. Any disruption in a class is a single warning and then they’re booted out into isolation. The kids learn fast enough there’s no wiggle room because the parents largely back the school and facilitate the detentions etc. My kids are really happy because it creates an undisrupted learning environment. But as soon as you have parents who go kicking and shouting to the school over every detention, none of it works.

Tell me about it. I had to teach 10 year old kids that couldn't read or write at the same time, in the same lesson as those with a normal range of ability.

It's how the system in the UK has been for decades.
In very very rare circumstances a child might repeat a year (for example if they've missed a year of school for medical reasons) but repeating years (or jumping ahead) just doesn't happen in the UK.

Well that's preposterous. The poor kid who cant keep up dragging the quicker learner down. What a waste of teachers' time !

No. You just move up each year.

So, how does that work? Do the teachers make recommendations?

My only experience is from DD starting high school nearly 20 years ago. Her entire first year was disrupted by a group of boys, nearly every lesson affected.
They’ve (government and LEAs) had over 20 years to sort this out!

@DarkPassenger1 @caravela at primary we did do a lot of work in groups so I assume we helped each other out.
I remember at secondary school in the first year we were mixed ability and sometimes certain children would be asked to explain something to others and help them out.
One of those children went on to become a teacher and headteacher. I guess he didn't mind helping.