To think we need to learn how to debate again

NRTFT, but if you are interested in genuine debate and the exchange of Ideas I'd highly recommend The Battle of Ideas conference in London in October. I've been the last few years and to me it felt very hopeful and refreshing to see respectful, good natured debate going on. There's panellists from across the political spectrum, lots of topics covered and a lot of time for audience contributions. Here's the link.

www.battleofideas.org.uk/

that is not the left. that is a group of individuals. Agree that within the left there have always been some loony lefties just like there have always been some fascists on the right - but that’s not the whole caboodle on either side.

Yes.

Yes education does matter - but even if they hate school, fostering a love of reading really does keep other people's stories open to them. Echo chambers can only flourish if people keep clicking and adding hate to them. The more time people use to do this the less they spend reading and broadening their empathy. It's why people used to travel too but that seems to now be to take selfies and be a consumer.

It IS mostly the left. Tell us one thing that the right get offended about - that is of course routed in fact not ideology?

yep education matters. My DS who did not get a good education (ADHD and self sabotage for various reasons) is very easily influenced by social media, Tommy Robinson etc. Because they are persuasive and appeal to his demographic he believes them

who are these left of which you speak?

I agree with you but I literally don’t know who you mean when you say far left. I don’t think we have any communists do we ? I do think people should indeed listen a bit more and perhaps find some common ground rather than creating labels for people and expecting them to act as a pack.

Yet the circle of life does dictate that we all become frail with vulnerabilities...so there are some relative certainties. Sadly these do not always become apparent until people recognise their own mortality. Everyone prioritises different things at different points of life, because they matter more to them in that moment. Having the ability to keep an open mind and think of other people's situations is therefore part of a functioning society. Empathy is key. We are only as good as how we look after the weakest in our society.

If you were to suggest that those on the 'left' want to be regarded as open-minded, egalitarian and want people generally to be treated the same, that would be consistent with my perspective. Should I retort that the MN left-leaners are pious, virtue-signalling idealists who are doomed to make excuses for the incompetent and idle, then I would be rude and insulting.

If I suggest that I would tend to regard more right wing views as being pragmatic and effective, but perhaps at the expense of condemning the weaker individual members of society to poverty, you might not disagree. You are then free to call me a cynical capitalist and hard-hearted.

It depends whether you want an efficient productive economy that will favour the brave, intelligent and hard-working, or one which swoops in to protect the vulnerable from their frailties.

None of the above begins to consider that there is always a spectrum of opinion, proven facts and unfounded beliefs, and that all of us are prone to deficiencies of knowledge and limited understanding.

I think your ‘purposely placed point’ is in particularly poor taste today, and if you wanted a debate you should have chosen a different topic.

"Go read a book" would work well here too

Some people really are just wrong and ignorant though, and it does them no harm to be firmly told as much.

I don't know about your DC but mine are always encouraged to debate at school. They do theology which is great for it, have wellbeing lessons and tutor room time, loads of speaking clubs for various subjects.
The average teen would rather grunt but it doesn't mean they aren't actively encouraged to debate; it's largely what History and English teaches for GCSE.

I actually think it is a "people who don't read" thing - I posted elsewhere but reading teaches empathy. As we age we do less of it and therefore seeing someone else's pov becomes harder and very black and white as we ignore the grey areas. We need to improve national literacy IMO (esp in men and boys).

I think the inability to tolerate people disagreeing with you is a cultural thing. In some families, polite disagreement is encouraged, but in many, it is seen as a sign of weakness to be challenged or to be wrong. As a society though, the internet and social media have obviously made people more shouty and tribal than before. They are not media that encourage measured thinking.

I learned to debate from my family, which was very tolerant of disagreements, but also at school. We did a course in critical thinking and held debates. It was extremely formative. I have a close friend who comes from a family where any disagreement feels like an attack. Even minor disagreements like whether a restaurant is any good. She gets offended very easily.

I do wonder as well whether there is a basic intelligence issue. Do you need a certain level of intelligence to hold an opinion while understanding that your opinion is not 'you'?

Because you allude to the far left and I'm trying to work out what kind of views you think that represents. To me the far-left are probably hardcore communists but they're few and far between these days. On the other hand I know that eg Trump rails against "far left extremists" but he's actually talking about people who are generally barely left-of-centre but who might disagree on one or two particular points.

So who's the far left for you?

Why would I need to?

What about, say, libel or defamation? Or the classic "shouting 'fire' in a theatre"?

And do you see a distinction between a government doing things to limit free speech, and a privately-owned platform?

I suppose you'd agree Reform are on the right of the political spectrum? And they're the ones in power at Nottingham council that have refused to allow the local paper into the meetings?
Hardly encouraging free speech.

Yanbu but I think it’s gone too far now and I can’t see it ever being pulled back.

Who do you think represents the far left? Can you name names?

Do you think there should be any limits to free speech or should all views, opinions and beliefs etc be able to be aired regardless?