Children having their own seat on a packed train.

Depends on the length of the journey. I would have put my ds on my lap for a short journey but if it were for several hours that wouldn't work. Children have rights but not the same rights as adults because they are not adults. They have different needs, hence different rights. Sitting a small child in your lap to free a seat for an adult is a reasonable thing to do, depending on other circumstances.

It's not outdated to teach manners, it's outdated to teach them that they matter less than a random able-bodied adult, who somehow feels an odd entitlement to a seat the child is already sitting in. Why is your comfort more important than the child, or the parent, sitting in the seat you've somehow decided is yours?

But why? What is the actual reason?

1. they haven’t paid for travel? That may or may not be the case depending on the train/bus service. No hard and fast rule whether or not money has been exchanged for travel.
   even if they are travelling for free, elderly people travel for free on the underground, for example, and no one suggests they get up for an able boded person.

2. they are small so can sit on lap. Yes, possibly some children could happily moved to a lap out of courtesy to someone else but since many people have more than one child with them and bags and a service is packed, it might be difficult, particularly with a wriggly child. I think most people would do this if possible but plenty of reasons why they wouldn’t. Shorter journeys of 20 mins I am sure people would put up with discomfort of a wriggly child but doing it for 2 hours on a packed intercity from London to Manchester, not so sure.

3. respect. Let’s transport ourselves back to the 1950s where children are seen but not heard and children should show deference to random strangers they don’t know and be forced to stand dangerously in a packed train just because they are 3 not 30.

Its sad that it is seen as outdated to teach your child simple manners. I feel sorry for children when they grow up and realise that the world does not revolve around them. My kids sat on laps, never did them any harm, grown up to be kind and considerate and also very successful adults

This is an incredibly outdated approach though, we now recognise children as actual people who aren't inferior to perfectly able-bodied adults.

That must be very difficult, coping with the judgement from people who don’t realise this and think he should give up his seat.

My DD1 has epilepsy, and has had a tonic clonic seizure whilst travelling, as well as several absences. It woulda’t be safe for her to stand up on a train. But you wouldn’t know that when looking at her.

She’s 16 now, and this is a recent development for her. (Though looking back, I think she did have absences in the past.). But there are many younger children suffering from epilepsy. You just wouldn’t know, so you shouldn’t judge.

The tiny child should be sitting on the parent’s knee. There is no way I would have let my DC have their own seat while adults are standing.

It is good manners and common sense. The 3 year old can sit on the parent’s lap. The standing adult gets the seat. Therefore more people are seated.

Or able bodied adults ignoring people who need to sit down. I don't know why small children have been so singled out here when they aren't even on trains that much!

There seems to be an anti child subset of mumsnet posters who think any level of care or consideration for small children is being a "woke snowflake" or something.

You don't pay for a seat you pay for the journey. Unless you are on a train where you can reserve your seat you aren't guaranteed a seat.

I wouldn't ask and I wouldn't expect them to move the child. As others have said, the ticket lets you ride on the train. I've stood on many commuter trains and that's just life. Whether it's an adult or child, if they sat there first, it's their seat.

Yes my personal experience is much more of seats being taken up by bags than by little kids when trains are busy.

A three year old can’t stand safely in a moving train. You are assuming the parent/adult is able to accommodate them on their lap - big assumption.
If you’d TOLD the adult to move the child, I don’t doubt you’d have received short shrift and looked like a bit of an idiot.

National rail don’t run any trains.

The rule is from the 70’s 🤣

Jeez this is hard work. I’ve travelled a lot on the train in different companies over the past 30 years never have I heard a guard ask someone to move a child.

There is a lot of guff in terms and conditions, that is just an example of it.

Funny it’s on the NR website then. I didn’t think the internet was invented in the 70s.

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/on-the-train/train-travel-with-children/

Oh give over, this stuff was parroted earlier.

Whatever it says in some ridiculous small print from the 70’s this is not how railways in 2025 operate.

They do tell utterly selfish twats to move their bags, however. And in real life the actual ‘entitled’ get arsey about that,

Only people on mumsnet actually pay for seats on planes though. Most people on flights haven’t paid for specific seats so it’s an imagined problem. People with kids absolutely shouldn’t have to pay more than everyone else.

That isn’t what National Rail says.

Children under 5
Children under 5 years of age travel for free on most journeys but check with your train company to make sure. Please note, children under 5 who are travelling without a ticket may only occupy a seat that is not required by a fare-paying passenger.

My mum also complained about this on buses once and it was definitely a ‘i demand respect because i’m an adult’ thing rather than ‘i need a seat’.

You’re actually the one who needs to learn manners here. You wanting to have a 3 year old (someone who will be more unstable than you) stand while you, an able bodied adult can have a seat is pretty pathetic.

If someone asked me to move my 3 year old and you were able bodied, i’d say no.

If you were disabled/pregnant etc, i would offer to give you my seat while I happily stand.

No, normal mums with common sense. Admitedly, senseseemed to be more common in the past than now, however. Of course we were not perfect but we can all learn from each other. Feel free to try my suggestion with your child if the need should arise.

It's a nice gesture for the adult to have the child sit on their knee if they are willing, but bear in mind that it's very uncomfortable to do this for an extended period of time. I'd probably prefer to stand if it was going to last more than 20min.

Yeah, and I’d tell you to fuck off (or similar).

No pandering from me.

I would put my under 5s on my lap on crowded trains or buses. Had to do ot just a couple of weeks ago. That way three people get to sit on two seats.

No they probably don’t but equally I don’t think anyone who says no to moving is being rude or entitled and I wouldn’t disagree that people on planes with kids should really book seats together. Ultimately if there are reservations available anyone with a ticket can choose to book them and if they don’t then realistically it’s not reasonable to expect someone else to fix that for them by making their own journey less comfortable.