Children having their own seat on a packed train.

Children under 5
Children under 5 years of age travel for free on most journeys but check with your train company to make sure. Please note, children under 5 who are travelling without a ticket may only occupy a seat that is not required by a fare-paying passenger. To have a reserved seat for a child under 5 you will need to purchase a child rate ticket. These come with seat reservations (if available), and there is also a 50% discount on most tickets.

That's not the expectation at all. Where does it say that children under 5 need to sit on parents lap when you buy a ticket?

OAPs get concessionary tickets, does that mean they get less right to a seat than a full paying customer?

No, of course not.

Some people LOOK perfectly able to stand, but in fact aren't. Me being one of them.

I would never ask. But as a parent I would have automatically pulled my child onto my lap at that age if I saw someone standing.

Also, I don’t think the fact of whether or not the child’s seat is paid for is relevant. There is no charge for young children, but that doesn’t make them less entitled to a seat. Here in NI people over 60 get free travel. Does that mean they aren’t entitled to a seat?

How can a three year old feel entitled because they are sitting down on a train? At that age they probably have zero understanding of the social constructs around the situation. They might even feel that its not fair for them to have to sit when all the grownups have the fun of standing oon the train?

Children are people too and it would be far more dangerous for them to stand.

As a rule I’d move my older children to my lap or stand up to be polite however I would not automatically do that with my youngest due to unseen medical issues I have, so I may well come across as a rude parent. I’d always make myself uncomfortable for someone who looked worse off than me ( elderly, pregnant, physically disabled) but not for a random adult who looks perfectly capable of standing.

How do you know the parents havent paid for an extra seat? I used to for my ds as no way would he have sat on my lap without having a screaming tantrum.

Had many a CF ask for the seat. I would show them his ticket and request they book a seat in future if they tried to get cheeky.

Fair question. Sometimes I will have given my child a seat which standing myself, other times the other way around. Probably changed with age I’d say. When he was, say, 8 and we’d walked a lot, I’d have given him a seat while I stood. Now he is a hulking 13 year old nearly as tall as me and with much more energy, and who will generally have been sitting down at school most of the day, I’d be more likely to make him stand while I took the free seat!

According to the railway rules quoted above ONLY if the seat is not required by a fare paying passenger

If I were travelling with the child I would sit them on my lap but I wouldn’t ask the parent to move them.

As a fully grown and able adult, I wouldn't be asking a small child to give up their seat. Get over yourself.

I don’t know if I would ask the child to move, but mine sure as hell wouldn’t be sitting while an adult stood, unless for some good reason I couldn’t take him/her on my lap.

It can be uncomfortable to stand for a long train journey.
It can be uncomfortable to have a three year old on your lap for a long train journey.

So, provided no one involved has booked a seat or has any disabilities, I think it’s just first come first served as to who gets to be more comfortable.

As a parent, yes the child should sit on the mum or dad's lap. I don't understand this mentality of children having priority over adults, I personally think it raises entitled brats who aren't respectful. However, I wouldn't ask someone to move their child as there are a lot of aggressive entitled people out there and I wouldn't like the confrontation

I wouldn’t ask; the parent might have reasons they can’t have the child on their lap, and if they’re doing more than a short journey, it could get very uncomfortable for the parent. The child will likely also be more comfortable in their own seat. If you need to sit down, ask someone to move from one of the seats dedicated for the use of the elderly etc.

No I wouldn’t, but I also wouldn’t expect another adult to have to stand to offer someone else’s child a seat, so it goes both ways. First come first served.

I'm on the fence. I generally moved mine at that age.
But on long journeys I often paid for a seat for my toddler even though they could technically travel for free in order to be able to book two seats together because having a three year old on your knee from seven hours isn't fun.

Also maybe Mum is pregnant and doesn't want a really heavy three year old squashed onto her on a moving train?

I really think train seats are first come first serve unless you have a reason you can't stand for a length of time.

Your choice to travel by train. Why should someone else stand just so you are not inconvenienced?

Children are allowed on trains therefore are allowed a seat even if they are free to travel. Your ticket isn't a right to a seat, its the right to use the train. Unless you have a seat reservation, no one is entitled to a seat, its first come first served.

Its not about being inconvenienced. It will be uncomfortable for the child as well as the parent. Keeping an uncomfortable child on your lap, while making sure they don't accidently kick the person in the seat next to you while they wriggle isn't fun for anyone.

I wouldn't ask someone to do it as I wouldn't want to sit next to a wriggling child.

The same argument can be said to you - its your choice to get the train from the station you did so therefore why should someone who has got on before you and got a seat be inconvenienced by being asked to move.

I wouldn’t ask, no. If I was on a packed train I would probably put my young child on my lap if people were standing. If that wasn’t possible and there was a vulnerable person standing, I would offer my seat and stand myself.

Why is it good manners? You know nothing about the person who hasn't moved their child or why they are sat in their own seat?

I don't think the payment for a child is necessarily relevant. Children under 5 don't have to pay on trains in the UK, and in London they don't have to pay on tube and most trains until age 11, but you wouldn't expect a 10 year old to sit on a parent's lap just because they didn't pay. I also don't pay due to having a Freedom Pass, but I'm not going to sit on DH's lap!

Personally I don't put my 3 year old on my lap on trains and tubes, as she's quite big and it's uncomfortable. In this area I don't think there's a social expectation for her to sit on my lap - I've often had adults get up and offer a seat to my child when it's crowded, and I prefer to stand up and let her sit on her own, and that's what I see most adults do with younger kids.

From the National Rail Website:
"Children under 5 years of age travel for free on most journeys but check with your train company to make sure. Please note, children under 5 who are travelling without a ticket may only occupy a seat that is not required by a fare-paying passenger. To have a reserved seat for a child under 5 you will need to purchase a child rate ticket. These come with seat reservations (if available), and there is also a 50% discount on most tickets."

So if the child (or more accurately, their parents) has bought a ticket, they've the same right to the seat as anyone else and shouldn't be asked to give it up. Otherwise they should be giving it up without even needing to be asked.

We travelled Edinburgh-London and back with our son when he was under 5, we bought a child ticket (we got a family & friends railcard which meant the additional cost was tiny) to guarantee a seat as didn't fancy him sitting on knees for over 4 hours!

I wouldn't ask, but I would (and have) move my child onto my lap on a packed train. I did this relatively recently with my 5 year old on an hour long journey despite the fact she had a seat reservation. It's just good manners.